ClubTread Community

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-   -   Advertising on Clubtread is WAY OVER THE TOP!! (https://forums.clubtread.com/9-site-feedback-help-suggestions/86946-advertising-clubtread-way-over-top.html)

Redbeard 11-16-2017 04:14 PM

100%, zeljkok. I agree that there have been many complaints about the "revamped" CT over the last few years and it's really sad that they've for the most part fallen on deaf ears. The issues you mention - banner, image uploader, ads - all are worthy of discussion. If you're not logged in or don't have an ad blocker, CT is really a terrible platform.

I don't know what it will take to improve it, but I will put my hand up and say I'm willing to do whatever I can to help. The CT community has enhanced my life in many ways. The first and foremost benefit has been inspiration - CT showed me what is possible, opened my eyes to the incredible backcountry here in BC (and beyond), and continues to bring my attention to areas that I don't think I'd have ever found otherwise. It has also connected me to like-minded hiking partners who have become great friends. I would hate to abandon all of this.

I'll admit that my original reply on this thread stating my intention to remove all content from CT was potentially a bit hasty. That said, my feelings about the VigLinks in particular are still strong. How can we bring the upper level management of the site admin into a discussion about funding CT in a way that isn't so oppressive and will instead enhance and grow CT rather than grind it into the ground? We used to have a CT calendar. Obviously there needs to be a will to manage it, but the CT calendar was a great way of coming up with funds for the site. I wasn't involved in the CT calendar at all, but I bought one the last time. How many people bought them? Was it too small a number to justify the effort?

How much money is VigLinks bringing in? Can we replace that revenue via a different means?

zeljkok 11-16-2017 05:43 PM

Redbeard -- you voice my sentiment 100%. People that flocked over to lame social media groups ask sometime why I bother with CT; some even think I am affiliated with VS, lol. Answer is simple --when I moved to Coast I had no clue where to hike; CT reports and trail wiki opened my eyes. All for free. Strong sense of community. This is debt I will always feel obliged to repay. So I take it personal what happened. All the damage and people that left. simonc, burnabyhiker, etc etc. and their legendary reports. Yes, things change, yes social media and quick and dirty get me a like I crave, but there is more than that.

Most damage was done right after the takeover, when nobody cared for anything and it was felt. There is some interaction now, but it does not address the core problem which starts with sneaky viglinks but does not end there.

I was asked privately & I believe if things stay as they are CT will fold in 2 years. I will stick like Karvitk and few others to bitter end, but that day is imminent unless someone senior from VS takes CT seriously under his wing and completely rewamps entire thing.

BurnabyRich 11-16-2017 05:54 PM

Hey Redbeard, long time no see! And long time no post for me! I agree with the last two posts by you and zeljkok. I haven't posted in over a year because I just gave up on the site. I have't stopped doing stuff outdoors but it's too frustrating to deal with this site. It's too bad because I got great benefit from the site and I actually enjoyed sharing as much as I could before it just became too much of a pain in the arse.

VSadmin 11-17-2017 11:24 AM

Let's start this again. Assume I'm a fresh set of eyes. I also work directly with the upper management. I can tell you plainly viglink for guest view is not going away. That is off the table. So what else has rendered this site unusable and chased off the community. From what I understand things were on the up particularly when Dayle stepped in to help. So give me the list. What is actually wrong here what I can fix I will, what I have to escalate I will, what is unchangeable like viglink I'll let you know.

Kyle

Redbeard 11-17-2017 12:46 PM

Let's see if I can translate what just happened.

Kyle: "Hello everyone. I have a direct link to upper management. The main point of this whole thread? Yeah, that's never going to change. Thank-you for your time and f*** you."

CT community: *Rolls eyes and moves on*



Kyle, that was supremely unhelpful.

My new strategy is going to be to put a disclaimer at the top of all my existing posts letting anyone know that a link inserted by VigLinks is not endorsed by me and encourage them to use an ad blocker such as AdBlock Plus in Firefox like I do myself. I'm also not going to post any new trip reports on CT. Anyone who's interested in reading my reports can subscribe to my blog at https://bcmtnman.wordpress.com/.

zeljkok 11-17-2017 03:14 PM

Kyle, basic misunderstanding what CT is all about (or used to be) is exactly what is wrong.

This is not really about viglinks; it is about listening and working with the community. Dayle at least tried to until she disappeared and this is why there was brief upswing.

My only message to you and whoever you report to is: LISTEN TO THE USERS. Otherwise all you will soon be left with is spammers and bots. Its already 50% of the traffic anyways.

Eryne 11-17-2017 04:23 PM

Viglinks also show up on the trail wiki, which I linked to in this thread before. I saw them on content I shared there WHEN I WAS LOGGED IN.
https://www.clubtread.com/Routes/Rout...tml?Route=1129 is the link.

I do not endorse the links and they are a major pain in the ass because they look like a virus. Users or people who stumble across Clubtread won't recognize this as a worthwhile site if it's a source of spam and viruses.

Can't you find another sponsor that better represents the ethic and culture of the users of this site?

I'd pull all my content, but I'm too lazy. I'll probably just edit my profile with a disclaimer about how I do not endorse any links that appear in any of the content I have shared here. And I'll send people to Patrick's blog, and every other outdoors blog that does not use these shitty advertising companies.

Redbeard 11-17-2017 05:23 PM

Thanks for the support, Eryne!

FWIW, this is the disclaimer I have now added to the top all of my posts (going back to when the photo limit was put in because I can't edit the posts with more than 25 photos without taking the photos out):

*** Disclaimer: If you're viewing this post without an adblocker installed in your browser or are not logged in to ClubTread, you may find links inserted into this post that I do not support. This is done by the site administrators using a service called VigLink. I encourage you to not click on those links. I've asked the ClubTread admin to discontinue this service, but they have refused. Additionally, if you're not using an adblocker, I encourage you to do so. The forum becomes much more pleasant to view without ads and loads much more quickly. ***

Candy Sack 11-17-2017 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 819474)
Let's start this again. Assume I'm a fresh set of eyes. I also work directly with the upper management. I can tell you plainly viglink for guest view is not going away. That is off the table. So what else has rendered this site unusable and chased off the community. From what I understand things were on the up particularly when Dayle stepped in to help. So give me the list. What is actually wrong here what I can fix I will, what I have to escalate I will, what is unchangeable like viglink I'll let you know.

Kyle

Kyle if you check out Site Feedback and Suggestions you will find no shortage of issues and topics for discussion about how things could be improved around here. The fact that you ask us what areas need improvement when there are threads/posts dedicated to those questions is not very inspiring. So do some reading. Dayle seemed to show an interest in improving the site. Since then it seems we've had a revolving door of administrators.

I echo the sentiments about the ads.

However, I will offer this challenge to members and users. Any forum, despite its shortcomings, is only as productive as its members. If we only look and don't comment, what's the point? The "like" button is lame and has correlated with diminishing comments. I don't chase likes, but I like discussion, feedback, and genuine interest. If you like something, say so and tell why. There's no way a TR should be posted on CT and get no comments-- no wonder people aren't bothering anymore! Not only is it more difficult to post TR's than it used to be, but there isn't nearly as much commentary.

I've been hanging around since 2009, back when heated arguments took place and new TR's came out daily. Those were better times. The site wasn't over-moderated and it was a free space to talk anything outdoors. Now it looks the same as every VerticalScope forum, lacks character, is cliquey, and is cumbersome. And also full of ads....

solo75 11-17-2017 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 819474)
What is actually wrong here what I can fix I will, what I have to escalate I will, what is unchangeable like viglink I'll let you know. Kyle

For some reason, I never see viglinks in any reports, with or without ad blocker or whether using IE or Firefox or signed in or not. Never knew they existed until this discussion.
I don't see what's difficult about understanding people's complaint about viglink. I think there are two main problems with using viglink: 1. lack of disclosure and 2. endorsement. When viglink is inserted into someone's trip report without them knowing, there is an assumption to readers that the OP endorses the products (which is not true). Secondly, I thought any website using viglink is subject to disclosure about its use:
https://www.viglink.com/legal/disclo...or-publishers/
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/fi...mentguides.pdf

zeljkok 11-17-2017 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candy Sack (Post 819546)
However, I will offer this challenge to members and users. Any forum, despite its shortcomings, is only as productive as its members. If we only look and don't comment, what's the point?

How can you be motivated to be productive when you feel disgusted by what your contribution has been turned into through something you don't like and didn't endorse?

Problem is not with moderation which is very good; if you want brawls, go to the bar. Problem is general direction site has taken; ownership disconnect, overblown advertising, security holes, etc etc. The way people feel is: Why would I donate my free time to something I am now having bad vibe about. When this is fixed, everything else comes back naturally. Or the site closes down; as simple as that.

Redbeard 11-19-2017 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljkok (Post 819562)
How can you be motivated to be productive when you feel disgusted by what your contribution has been turned into through something you don't like and didn't endorse?

Problem is not with moderation which is very good; if you want brawls, go to the bar. Problem is general direction site has taken; ownership disconnect, overblown advertising, security holes, etc etc. The way people feel is: Why would I donate my free time to something I am now having bad vibe about. When this is fixed, everything else comes back naturally. Or the site closes down; as simple as that.

I personally don't feel the site is over-moderated, but I appreciate Candy Sack's comment about the lack of comments. I'm guilty of this myself. I don't want to derail the thread, which is about VigLink primarily, but on the side-topic of CT's long-term viability, I always appreciate comments on my posts and need to be better about commenting on others, even if all I have to say is a brief "Nice one!" or "Great pics!"

Redbeard 11-19-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo75 (Post 819554)
For some reason, I never see viglinks in any reports, with or without ad blocker or whether using IE or Firefox or signed in or not. Never knew they existed until this discussion.
I don't see what's difficult about understanding people's complaint about viglink. I think there are two main problems with using viglink: 1. lack of disclosure and 2. endorsement. When viglink is inserted into someone's trip report without them knowing, there is an assumption to readers that the OP endorses the products (which is not true). Secondly, I thought any website using viglink is subject to disclosure about its use:
https://www.viglink.com/legal/disclo...or-publishers/
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/fi...mentguides.pdf

This is really interesting! I've never seen the VigLink "badge" anywhere on CT. Could the admin comment on why they're not disclosing this to anyone seeing these links?

zeljkok 11-19-2017 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbeard (Post 819626)
I personally don't feel the site is over-moderated, but I appreciate Candy Sack's comment about the lack of comments. I'm guilty of this myself. I don't want to derail the thread, which is about VigLink primarily, but on the side-topic of CT's long-term viability, I always appreciate comments on my posts and need to be better about commenting on others, even if all I have to say is a brief "Nice one!" or "Great pics!"


absolutely. (It is funny though that Candy brings this up, yet he is one that never has + comment for anybody else). But it is all part of bigger picture; if you don't have good vibe about the site, it is hard to feel enthusiastic & provide support.

I agree though, this thread is about viglinks & sorry if I derailed it. IMHO it is now more than essential to have it removed considering how the community, smart part that is left, feels about it.

Candy Sack 11-19-2017 06:12 PM

Thanks for the personal attack zeljcock. Read through some of my history and you'll see lots of positive comments. Some critical, some sarcastic, but lots positive. Not to mention the 80 TR's I've contributed from various locations over the years.


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