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-   -   Advertising on Clubtread is WAY OVER THE TOP!! (https://forums.clubtread.com/9-site-feedback-help-suggestions/86946-advertising-clubtread-way-over-top.html)

zeljkok 11-10-2017 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dru (Post 818594)
Spam is illegal too. Look how well that works.

Spam is pollution, bot clicks is stealing. There is a difference.

VSadmin 11-10-2017 11:28 AM

If you're not logged in, you'll see more ads. you'll see all the ads for guest users, which is why we recommend that you guys log in since you are members.

Of course even as members, we still have some ads.
If they are intrusive, you can report them to use with the screenshot and bad url and a little brief on why it's disturbing your experience.

Lee

Dru 11-10-2017 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljkok (Post 818602)
Spam is pollution, bot clicks is stealing. There is a difference.

If my plan charges 1 cent per text received while roaming and I get 1000 spam texts, it hits my pocketbook, but it's not stealing from me?

zeljkok 11-10-2017 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dru (Post 818618)
If my plan charges 1 cent per text received while roaming and I get 1000 spam texts, it hits my pocketbook, but it's not stealing from me?

Again, there is difference -- bot click is theft for direct benefit (of whoever runs bots). Mobile roaming example ends benefiting network without direct intention.

But this is all rhetoric that can be argued one way or the other. Bottom line is -- I don't believe (majority of) add clicks are bot generated, because higher scrutiny of publisher clearinghouse, i.e google adsense. Would be interesting to chat with someone from google about it

xj6response 11-11-2017 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 818610)
If you're not logged in, you'll see more ads. you'll see all the ads for guest users, which is why we recommend that you guys log in since you are members.

Of course even as members, we still have some ads.
If they are intrusive, you can report them to use with the screenshot and [b] ad url [/url] and a little brief on why it's disturbing your experience.

Lee

That's typically what I do on CT, login before use.

However a few weeks ago I signed into CT, while using my company laptop via our corporate VPN. This is loaded with multiple SSL, transacts through an obfuscating server in the USA, has multiple levels of encryption and their own real-time threat surveillance for all employee systems. It is always right. A minute after I logged in, I received a text from IT at head office in the States saying that at least one advert, displaying on the CT login page, prior to login, contained embedded malware, Malvertising, if you will. Curiously, a while later my Macafee anti-virus layer also reported 'suspicious' attempts, which my company says was at a TCP sequence attack, but in my case all connectivity was shut off immediately by my company, a scan done and all clear.

I do think CT needs to pay attention to the potential for embedded nasty stuff in what may be legitimate advertising. How are you ensuring that is so?

zeljkok 11-11-2017 02:10 PM

That is another, valid issue. I still keep getting on occasion spam emails because of that security breach awhile ago.

I repeat once again, VS should consider running add free. Mobile version, even in enhanced view, is largely non-usable. Revenue generated just can't be that significant and has caused much damage in terms of end user drain.

Redbeard 11-11-2017 03:08 PM

Just caught up on this whole thread. For the record, I personally use an adblocker in Firefox as my primary way of using CT. If I use my phone, CT is virtually unusable, both because the platform sucks and because of the ads.

I strongly support idealistic74's resistance to the ad links created from our personal content. The admin's point about being logged in or not is irrelevant and completely ignoring idealistic74's original complaint. If this isn't changed, I'll be removing all of my content from CT. I can put up with the banner and sidebar ads (particularly since I never really see them anyways), but I'm strongly opposed to having my personal content used to sell things via links embedded in my posts.

For what it's worth, I for one would be willing to pay an annual subscription to keep CT ad-free for all - both those who have a CT account and those who don't. I understand there are costs to running a website and am willing to support it directly rather than forcing the site to rely on ad revenue.

VSadmin 11-11-2017 03:09 PM

Hi @xj6response

Could you let us know which ad your IT department warned you about? This is obviously something we would like to let the techs know about as soon as possible.

Fergus

Redbeard 11-11-2017 03:16 PM

As a follow-up, I just went to CT via a different browser where I don't have an adblocker and wasn't logged in. I checked a post I put up less than an hour ago and links were already added for the phrases "climbing shoes" and "I felt I". I didn't click on the links. This post also includes hyperlinks that I added myself, so mixing both my own links with these VigLinks is wrong. I stand by my commitment to remove my content if the Admin doesn't remove this.

zeljkok 11-11-2017 03:52 PM

These comments by Redbeard, although quite strong, in essence demonstrate why advertising in general is in my opinion wrong way for VS to move ahead with Club Tread brand. There are tons of people out there that felt the same and just decided to disappear silently.

xj6response 11-11-2017 04:37 PM

I've asked for the report but being a huge tech company, their threat management team is very tight on these things. If I get the info I will definitely let you know. I'm told by their Toronto security office that new forms "Malvertising" have been shown to bypass ad blockers by detecting the typical IP traffic pattern when the ad blocker pings the EasyList of ads and somehow fooling the immunity of an ad blocker. I imagine the security firms like Mcafee etc will put updates out on this soon.

Eryne 11-14-2017 07:18 PM

I'm with Redbeard. Remove the Viglinks.

Those Viglinks (That show up on the trail wiki when I'm logged in) are not endorsed by me, but show up in my reports, my contributions to the trail wiki, and probably this very post. Get rid of them. I see in a post that some admin said Clubtread does not use Viglinks. If that's the case, and the links are showing up, you have a virus and you've probably given it to me.

zeljkok 11-14-2017 11:27 PM

well said Eryne

Honestly VSAdmins, this is bigger issue than you maybe think. I realize these posts are most likely read just by regular staff, but I urge you to bring it up with management. Since you took over site is in decline that keeps spiraling down and adds are major reason. I love CT; if you look at "Canadian Rockies" Forum you'll see I am basically carrying it on my back, but I'd be inclined to stop for very same reason.

Get rid of the viglinks, preferably all adds. Find other was to monetize CT

VSadmin 11-15-2017 11:35 AM

do you guys see it on the homepage: www.clubtread.com or on the forum? forums.clubtread.com?

We can't do an ad-free forum, the ads provide a source of income for the forum to pay for the server, we provide a less-ads envrionments for users and i would recommend that everyone with ad issues to provide screenshots to pin point which ones are invasive however I don't see any in this thread which is making it hard. there are no URLs provided either so we don't know which ones to remove.

ads and ad links are not always static and the same, they're based on the user, their browser, general browsing history and geo-location. which is why we want you guys to send in the ones you need us to removed.

Thanks.

Li

Redbeard 11-15-2017 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 819129)
do you guys see it on the homepage: www.clubtread.com or on the forum? forums.clubtread.com?

We can't do an ad-free forum, the ads provide a source of income for the forum to pay for the server, we provide a less-ads envrionments for users and i would recommend that everyone with ad issues to provide screenshots to pin point which ones are invasive however I don't see any in this thread which is making it hard. there are no URLs provided either so we don't know which ones to remove.

ads and ad links are not always static and the same, they're based on the user, their browser, general browsing history and geo-location. which is why we want you guys to send in the ones you need us to removed.

Thanks.

Li

Hi Li,

Please be sure to read the thread more thoroughly before replying. No one on this thread has suggested you need to operate the site for free. Any discussion about going ad-free has also included the idea of annual subscriptions in order to pay for the site maintenance costs. Also, it's just a suggestion and really secondary to the main point of the thread.

The primary issue of this thread is the VigLinks which are showing up for anyone who is not logged in. Here is a screenshot:

https://bcmtnman.files.wordpress.com...1/viglinks.png

https://bcmtnman.files.wordpress.com...viglinks-2.png

These links were showing up on a post that I made less than an hour before taking the screen shots. (This is the post: https://forums.clubtread.com/37-washi...16-2017-a.html)

In another of my recent posts (https://forums.clubtread.com/37-washi...-9-2017-a.html), every instance where I used the word "crampons" was turned into a link as well.

Patrick

treord8 11-15-2017 08:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Also did it for me when I logged out and looked at one of my old posts, in case you want another example:
https://forums.clubtread.com/35-other...alcon-etc.html

and a screenshot below. Note the nice "link added by VigLink" when you hover over the words"45 minutes". :) Not added by me....

VSadmin 11-16-2017 11:55 AM

Vig link ads only appear to users not signed in and are added automatically by a scripting bot. Once you sign in, the ads go away. It's become pretty common practice on a lot of sites, and we aren't an exception to that here

Kevin

VSadmin 11-16-2017 12:03 PM

Quote:

The primary issue of this thread is the VigLinks which are showing up for anyone who is not logged in. Here is a screenshot:
Viglinks are for guests. Anyone who are not logged in are considered guest. If there is a premium program, we would possibly make the site show less ads when they're logged in.
Otherwise, there isn't away for this forum software to detect if a user is a guest or member not logged in.

Is there an issue with users not wanting to log in?

Lee

Redbeard 11-16-2017 01:00 PM

You guys aren't listening.

I don't care if the person reading my post is logged in or not. I don't want links being put in my posts that are selling things without my permission. I'm not an idiot and I understand that it's a scripting bot not an actual person pouring over our posts and inserting them manually. You, however, have the ability to deactivate the scripting bot so that it stops doing that.

Do it.

Or don't, I guess. Just don't look around all confused when no one uses this damn site anymore because you ran it into the ground and refused to listen to the members. I'm by no means as involved as many others on this thread, but I've been an active member for 7 years now and have posted 49 trip reports. I already have a blog that I essentially duplicate my posts on these days because I hate what's been going on with CT. I'd hate to have to pull all my content off this site, but I guess if you continue to simply refuse to adjust your practices, that'll be what's necessary.

zeljkok 11-16-2017 03:49 PM

Redbeard -- problem is that posts like this are read by employees; they don't have authority to make corporate level decisions. This needs to be brought up with upper level management; but I don't think they realize the severity of the issue. I've been on the Forum now 7 years and severity of decline is fascinating. This is not about small features (banner, etc), not about UI (image uploader some complain about), not even about adds (although this is major issue) --- it is rather complex problem that can be solved only by intelligent rework of Club Tread brand.

It does start by listening to the users. That are still here that is.

Redbeard 11-16-2017 04:14 PM

100%, zeljkok. I agree that there have been many complaints about the "revamped" CT over the last few years and it's really sad that they've for the most part fallen on deaf ears. The issues you mention - banner, image uploader, ads - all are worthy of discussion. If you're not logged in or don't have an ad blocker, CT is really a terrible platform.

I don't know what it will take to improve it, but I will put my hand up and say I'm willing to do whatever I can to help. The CT community has enhanced my life in many ways. The first and foremost benefit has been inspiration - CT showed me what is possible, opened my eyes to the incredible backcountry here in BC (and beyond), and continues to bring my attention to areas that I don't think I'd have ever found otherwise. It has also connected me to like-minded hiking partners who have become great friends. I would hate to abandon all of this.

I'll admit that my original reply on this thread stating my intention to remove all content from CT was potentially a bit hasty. That said, my feelings about the VigLinks in particular are still strong. How can we bring the upper level management of the site admin into a discussion about funding CT in a way that isn't so oppressive and will instead enhance and grow CT rather than grind it into the ground? We used to have a CT calendar. Obviously there needs to be a will to manage it, but the CT calendar was a great way of coming up with funds for the site. I wasn't involved in the CT calendar at all, but I bought one the last time. How many people bought them? Was it too small a number to justify the effort?

How much money is VigLinks bringing in? Can we replace that revenue via a different means?

zeljkok 11-16-2017 05:43 PM

Redbeard -- you voice my sentiment 100%. People that flocked over to lame social media groups ask sometime why I bother with CT; some even think I am affiliated with VS, lol. Answer is simple --when I moved to Coast I had no clue where to hike; CT reports and trail wiki opened my eyes. All for free. Strong sense of community. This is debt I will always feel obliged to repay. So I take it personal what happened. All the damage and people that left. simonc, burnabyhiker, etc etc. and their legendary reports. Yes, things change, yes social media and quick and dirty get me a like I crave, but there is more than that.

Most damage was done right after the takeover, when nobody cared for anything and it was felt. There is some interaction now, but it does not address the core problem which starts with sneaky viglinks but does not end there.

I was asked privately & I believe if things stay as they are CT will fold in 2 years. I will stick like Karvitk and few others to bitter end, but that day is imminent unless someone senior from VS takes CT seriously under his wing and completely rewamps entire thing.

BurnabyRich 11-16-2017 05:54 PM

Hey Redbeard, long time no see! And long time no post for me! I agree with the last two posts by you and zeljkok. I haven't posted in over a year because I just gave up on the site. I have't stopped doing stuff outdoors but it's too frustrating to deal with this site. It's too bad because I got great benefit from the site and I actually enjoyed sharing as much as I could before it just became too much of a pain in the arse.

VSadmin 11-17-2017 11:24 AM

Let's start this again. Assume I'm a fresh set of eyes. I also work directly with the upper management. I can tell you plainly viglink for guest view is not going away. That is off the table. So what else has rendered this site unusable and chased off the community. From what I understand things were on the up particularly when Dayle stepped in to help. So give me the list. What is actually wrong here what I can fix I will, what I have to escalate I will, what is unchangeable like viglink I'll let you know.

Kyle

Redbeard 11-17-2017 12:46 PM

Let's see if I can translate what just happened.

Kyle: "Hello everyone. I have a direct link to upper management. The main point of this whole thread? Yeah, that's never going to change. Thank-you for your time and f*** you."

CT community: *Rolls eyes and moves on*



Kyle, that was supremely unhelpful.

My new strategy is going to be to put a disclaimer at the top of all my existing posts letting anyone know that a link inserted by VigLinks is not endorsed by me and encourage them to use an ad blocker such as AdBlock Plus in Firefox like I do myself. I'm also not going to post any new trip reports on CT. Anyone who's interested in reading my reports can subscribe to my blog at https://bcmtnman.wordpress.com/.

zeljkok 11-17-2017 03:14 PM

Kyle, basic misunderstanding what CT is all about (or used to be) is exactly what is wrong.

This is not really about viglinks; it is about listening and working with the community. Dayle at least tried to until she disappeared and this is why there was brief upswing.

My only message to you and whoever you report to is: LISTEN TO THE USERS. Otherwise all you will soon be left with is spammers and bots. Its already 50% of the traffic anyways.

Eryne 11-17-2017 04:23 PM

Viglinks also show up on the trail wiki, which I linked to in this thread before. I saw them on content I shared there WHEN I WAS LOGGED IN.
https://www.clubtread.com/Routes/Rout...tml?Route=1129 is the link.

I do not endorse the links and they are a major pain in the ass because they look like a virus. Users or people who stumble across Clubtread won't recognize this as a worthwhile site if it's a source of spam and viruses.

Can't you find another sponsor that better represents the ethic and culture of the users of this site?

I'd pull all my content, but I'm too lazy. I'll probably just edit my profile with a disclaimer about how I do not endorse any links that appear in any of the content I have shared here. And I'll send people to Patrick's blog, and every other outdoors blog that does not use these shitty advertising companies.

Redbeard 11-17-2017 05:23 PM

Thanks for the support, Eryne!

FWIW, this is the disclaimer I have now added to the top all of my posts (going back to when the photo limit was put in because I can't edit the posts with more than 25 photos without taking the photos out):

*** Disclaimer: If you're viewing this post without an adblocker installed in your browser or are not logged in to ClubTread, you may find links inserted into this post that I do not support. This is done by the site administrators using a service called VigLink. I encourage you to not click on those links. I've asked the ClubTread admin to discontinue this service, but they have refused. Additionally, if you're not using an adblocker, I encourage you to do so. The forum becomes much more pleasant to view without ads and loads much more quickly. ***

Candy Sack 11-17-2017 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 819474)
Let's start this again. Assume I'm a fresh set of eyes. I also work directly with the upper management. I can tell you plainly viglink for guest view is not going away. That is off the table. So what else has rendered this site unusable and chased off the community. From what I understand things were on the up particularly when Dayle stepped in to help. So give me the list. What is actually wrong here what I can fix I will, what I have to escalate I will, what is unchangeable like viglink I'll let you know.

Kyle

Kyle if you check out Site Feedback and Suggestions you will find no shortage of issues and topics for discussion about how things could be improved around here. The fact that you ask us what areas need improvement when there are threads/posts dedicated to those questions is not very inspiring. So do some reading. Dayle seemed to show an interest in improving the site. Since then it seems we've had a revolving door of administrators.

I echo the sentiments about the ads.

However, I will offer this challenge to members and users. Any forum, despite its shortcomings, is only as productive as its members. If we only look and don't comment, what's the point? The "like" button is lame and has correlated with diminishing comments. I don't chase likes, but I like discussion, feedback, and genuine interest. If you like something, say so and tell why. There's no way a TR should be posted on CT and get no comments-- no wonder people aren't bothering anymore! Not only is it more difficult to post TR's than it used to be, but there isn't nearly as much commentary.

I've been hanging around since 2009, back when heated arguments took place and new TR's came out daily. Those were better times. The site wasn't over-moderated and it was a free space to talk anything outdoors. Now it looks the same as every VerticalScope forum, lacks character, is cliquey, and is cumbersome. And also full of ads....

solo75 11-17-2017 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 819474)
What is actually wrong here what I can fix I will, what I have to escalate I will, what is unchangeable like viglink I'll let you know. Kyle

For some reason, I never see viglinks in any reports, with or without ad blocker or whether using IE or Firefox or signed in or not. Never knew they existed until this discussion.
I don't see what's difficult about understanding people's complaint about viglink. I think there are two main problems with using viglink: 1. lack of disclosure and 2. endorsement. When viglink is inserted into someone's trip report without them knowing, there is an assumption to readers that the OP endorses the products (which is not true). Secondly, I thought any website using viglink is subject to disclosure about its use:
https://www.viglink.com/legal/disclo...or-publishers/
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/fi...mentguides.pdf

zeljkok 11-17-2017 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candy Sack (Post 819546)
However, I will offer this challenge to members and users. Any forum, despite its shortcomings, is only as productive as its members. If we only look and don't comment, what's the point?

How can you be motivated to be productive when you feel disgusted by what your contribution has been turned into through something you don't like and didn't endorse?

Problem is not with moderation which is very good; if you want brawls, go to the bar. Problem is general direction site has taken; ownership disconnect, overblown advertising, security holes, etc etc. The way people feel is: Why would I donate my free time to something I am now having bad vibe about. When this is fixed, everything else comes back naturally. Or the site closes down; as simple as that.

Redbeard 11-19-2017 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljkok (Post 819562)
How can you be motivated to be productive when you feel disgusted by what your contribution has been turned into through something you don't like and didn't endorse?

Problem is not with moderation which is very good; if you want brawls, go to the bar. Problem is general direction site has taken; ownership disconnect, overblown advertising, security holes, etc etc. The way people feel is: Why would I donate my free time to something I am now having bad vibe about. When this is fixed, everything else comes back naturally. Or the site closes down; as simple as that.

I personally don't feel the site is over-moderated, but I appreciate Candy Sack's comment about the lack of comments. I'm guilty of this myself. I don't want to derail the thread, which is about VigLink primarily, but on the side-topic of CT's long-term viability, I always appreciate comments on my posts and need to be better about commenting on others, even if all I have to say is a brief "Nice one!" or "Great pics!"

Redbeard 11-19-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo75 (Post 819554)
For some reason, I never see viglinks in any reports, with or without ad blocker or whether using IE or Firefox or signed in or not. Never knew they existed until this discussion.
I don't see what's difficult about understanding people's complaint about viglink. I think there are two main problems with using viglink: 1. lack of disclosure and 2. endorsement. When viglink is inserted into someone's trip report without them knowing, there is an assumption to readers that the OP endorses the products (which is not true). Secondly, I thought any website using viglink is subject to disclosure about its use:
https://www.viglink.com/legal/disclo...or-publishers/
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/fi...mentguides.pdf

This is really interesting! I've never seen the VigLink "badge" anywhere on CT. Could the admin comment on why they're not disclosing this to anyone seeing these links?

zeljkok 11-19-2017 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbeard (Post 819626)
I personally don't feel the site is over-moderated, but I appreciate Candy Sack's comment about the lack of comments. I'm guilty of this myself. I don't want to derail the thread, which is about VigLink primarily, but on the side-topic of CT's long-term viability, I always appreciate comments on my posts and need to be better about commenting on others, even if all I have to say is a brief "Nice one!" or "Great pics!"


absolutely. (It is funny though that Candy brings this up, yet he is one that never has + comment for anybody else). But it is all part of bigger picture; if you don't have good vibe about the site, it is hard to feel enthusiastic & provide support.

I agree though, this thread is about viglinks & sorry if I derailed it. IMHO it is now more than essential to have it removed considering how the community, smart part that is left, feels about it.

Candy Sack 11-19-2017 06:12 PM

Thanks for the personal attack zeljcock. Read through some of my history and you'll see lots of positive comments. Some critical, some sarcastic, but lots positive. Not to mention the 80 TR's I've contributed from various locations over the years.

Dru 11-20-2017 02:57 PM

cool it you two. complain about moderation or administration all you want but don't personally attack one another please.

VSadmin 11-20-2017 05:02 PM

Regarding the disclosure comment, firstly every link does say "link added by viglink" when hovered over, secondly viglink "badge" disclosure is something specific to the FTC, Canada has different guidelines hence the message.

Regarding the previous threads in the support section, it looks like they've all been addressed. This leads me to believe that as it stands the problem is essentially viglink. So if that is not the case then tell me what problems are still present. If it is the case, viglinks pay for the site's overhead and operation, comparable ad affiliates that cover that cost as well are far more obtrusive and cause significant lag. You are entitled to post whatever disclosures you like in your reports, you're well within your rights on that, I can't and absolutely wouldn't stop you.

End of the day, whether or not I'm a hiker says nothing to the fact that I don't want this site to fail. You can take that as you will, you can assume the community is rolling their eyes and you can tell me where to go all you want. I'll still be here singing the same tune.

Kyle

Redbeard 11-26-2017 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSadmin (Post 819730)
Regarding the disclosure comment, firstly every link does say "link added by viglink" when hovered over, secondly viglink "badge" disclosure is something specific to the FTC, Canada has different guidelines hence the message.

Regarding the previous threads in the support section, it looks like they've all been addressed. This leads me to believe that as it stands the problem is essentially viglink. So if that is not the case then tell me what problems are still present. If it is the case, viglinks pay for the site's overhead and operation, comparable ad affiliates that cover that cost as well are far more obtrusive and cause significant lag. You are entitled to post whatever disclosures you like in your reports, you're well within your rights on that, I can't and absolutely wouldn't stop you.

End of the day, whether or not I'm a hiker says nothing to the fact that I don't want this site to fail. You can take that as you will, you can assume the community is rolling their eyes and you can tell me where to go all you want. I'll still be here singing the same tune.

Kyle

Kyle,

Thank-you for clarifying the disclosure matter. You're right that the links do state that they've been added by VigLink, so you're living up to your obligations to the Canadian guidelines.

Regarding my "F*** you" comment, this wasn't directed at you. Please re-read the post. My point was that this was essentially what you were saying to all of us! By taking the main point of this thread and stating that it's never going to change rather than engaging in a discussion about what it would take financially to replace that revenue, you shut the conversation down.

Whatever... I'm done with this one for now. I've expressed my frustration and for now, you can count me as just another CT member who has checked out.

Patrick

StevenSong 11-26-2017 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbeard (Post 819626)
I personally don't feel the site is over-moderated, but I appreciate Candy Sack's comment about the lack of comments. I'm guilty of this myself. I don't want to derail the thread, which is about VigLink primarily, but on the side-topic of CT's long-term viability, I always appreciate comments on my posts and need to be better about commenting on others, even if all I have to say is a brief "Nice one!" or "Great pics!"

Not really following this thread and no clue what's going on here about the debates, but I absolutely second this lack-of-interaction thing... Lack-of-comment makes the trip report posters feel like talking to themselves hence why bother..

I used to contribute here but not so much anymore. I think almost everyone knows my site and that's my long term beta storage. As long as wordpress isn't down the trip report will always be there... Facebook and Instagram is now where I seek social interactions. I can post one picture on Instagram plus a simul-post to Facebook. Within 2 days I can generate hundreds of likes plus 20+ comments. Some are discussions, some are beta inquiries and some will share their own beta and trip experience. So why bother.. They together has done a substitution... Forums like this has an advantage of being "in between" but now both sides are going downhill. If I see interesting peakbagging trip reports posted here I might comment but I feel lazy to say "good job" to every Elk Mountain trip report. Almost all serious people have left.

xj6response 11-26-2017 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevenSong (Post 820154)
... Forums like this has an advantage of being "in between" but now both sides are going downhill. If I see interesting peakbagging trip reports posted here I might comment but I feel lazy to say "good job" to every Elk Mountain trip report. Almost all serious people have left.

Yeah, kind of sad the downturn of CT. I think the painful interface, intrusive ads and the prior major security breach have degraded the experience and diminished the user base. CT posters still put up amazing photos and unique reports but for a site that should be trying to drive traffic to itself, it's failing miserably.

These days most of my hiking online interaction is via a Vancouver Island FB group with thousands of members, very active commentary and up to date info on nearly every hike/climb/scramble on the island. I'm no fan of social media, much prefer a CT format, but social media is where the current info is and active posters reside. The CT format, as it is, can't compete. Tragic.


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