Trail Flagging apocalypse! - ClubTread Community

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post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
Hittin' the Trails
 
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Default Trail Flagging apocalypse!

Paton peak and mnt coliseum trails pictures are featured below... Thank you to the kind soul who flagged the trail; unfortunately, the trail has been so well flagged that in some areas there is over 10 new long pink flags in the span of 50 meters or less. In many areas there are as many as two or three flags clustered where one would have sufficed. There is so much flagging it's almost a nuisance and I would go as far to call it littering. I touched up this trail with flagging a few years back, I believe my job was sufficient, The most recent flagging job almost seems like a joke. The trail even without flagging is very obvious and no route finding skills are necessary. What are people's thoughts on this?


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Last edited by zeljkok; 07-27-2021 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Flip images to correct orientation
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 12:46 AM
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I was thinking of putting in a new route (not trail) somewhere and putting in flags only at key points where you MUST make the right route decision.

For trails with a clear footbed, I don't think any flags are necessary. The usual winter route markers are enough.

For less-travelled routes I like to see the next flag/marker at all times. More than that is overdoing it.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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I posted this to Facebook. Getting crucified for bringing up my concern, apparently my view is not shared
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BubblinBacon View Post
I posted this to Facebook. Getting crucified for bringing up my concern, apparently my view is not shared

Ya, well because those are exactly the same people that make this pollution in the first place. Next time, if you have bit of time, leave one or two if really helpful and simply remove the rest & take down like any other garbage found on trail.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed. Maybe if I'm in the area in the Fall... I like trail maintenance but it was a little much
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 06:57 PM
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I get annoyed by over-taping as well, it seems like ugly pollution waving in your face. My pockets are always full of crap by the time I get home, and sometimes it contains excessive flagging.

I go fairly sparse when flagging, especially when route is going straight or is obvious. I put more at corners. I also don't leave huge long dangly things. In wilderness areas, like Spindle, etc. I always retrieve my flagging when coming down, so the next explorers can have the same route finding experience that I did.

I guess your reaction on facebook reflects the type of users. Higher levels of experience leads to wanting more than trudging up and down.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 08:39 PM
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That area has been bad for excessive flagging for as long as we have going up there. Seems to get refreshed every summer. I don't like it either when the trail bed is so obvious.
In the last few years I have noticed someone is painting orange dots on obvious, well worn trails (Binkert/Mt. Beautiful/etc.). Right on the ground on rocks. I don't understand that at all.

I'm no angel, however. I remember placing flags almost 3-4 meters apart through a thick bushwhack up to Mt. Corriveau in our early years. I left them up on descent too. Not cool because I have no idea if that was the most efficient route up. All I know is it got us up and down.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by John and Katie View Post

I'm no angel, however. I remember placing flags almost 3-4 meters apart through a thick bushwhack up to Mt. Corriveau in our early years. I left them up on descent too. Not cool because I have no idea if that was the most efficient route up. All I know is it got us up and down.

Ya, but now you have Katie to rescue you if you get lost
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2021, 10:21 PM
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Ya, but now you have Katie to rescue you if you get lost
One of the many things dogs are so good at.
I feels so bad thinking back to this. I really should go back and clean them up....
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 07-28-2021, 12:40 AM
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I feels so bad thinking back to this. I really should go back and clean them up....

Not to make you feel better, but small episode I took part of when I was on the Coast


It was NSH D trip - with some really well known people, outdoor veterans, up Tetrahedron on Sunshine Coast. I was just following, well I am Rockies guy, these people know Coast better. We got lost, bushwhack, somehow found the way. Then on descent "Let's go this way, looks good". One of these guys, well known name I am not going to mention on purpose, just starts flagging. We don't even know if we are going in right direction, but he is flagging like a machine. I ask "Do you know where we are going?" Answer: "not really". "Why are you flagging then?" Answer: "Out of habbit".


So there you have it. There are many levels why flagging, although extremely helpful in general, can be wrong: 1) Pointing in wrong direction 2) Pure pollution - such as Colisuem/Burwell where no flagging is really necessary
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 07-28-2021, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Yup. The excuse for excessive flagging (on Facebook) was safety and that there are many inexperienced hikers who couldn't find snow in a snowstorm 🤔
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 07-28-2021, 02:29 PM
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Havent been up that back route to Coliseum in a couple of years since bike-hiking Cathedral. Alot of evidence of bears around Paton lookout every time I go there, tons of blueberries. I can see it for the winter I guess. I used to do flagging on sketchy trails(like in the Forbidden zone) but Im very careful about doing it now. The problem becomes when you become off the trail and you start flagging in case you have to backtrack. Then you come back to the proper trail and those errant flags are still there to confuse someone else. At the end of daylight you start to get nervous and chasing around, following bad flags. I would say nowadays with GPS phone navigation the North shore and all local mts. are all mapped as long as you have battery! I always pack the North Shore-Howe Sound trails map with a roamers compass( and knowing how to use them) as a backup. I also have an old school barometric-pressure altimeter watch which works surprisingly well. The key to these type of altimeter device I have found is to calibrate it on the day you go ( reads % of moisture in the air which decreases as you go higher) using a known elevation.

Last edited by Jaaklucas; 07-28-2021 at 02:36 PM.
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 07-28-2021, 03:26 PM
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That flagging looks excessive.
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 07-28-2021, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaaklucas View Post
I would say nowadays with GPS phone navigation the North shore and all local mts. are all mapped as long as you have battery!

I agree with all you said, but flags can still be very helpful for micro-terrain. i.e. in "magic world" all you see is bush, GPS will tell general direction but flags will reveal hidden path. For instance Coliseum/Burwell flags are hardly needed anywhere, but if you continue towards Cathedral past Burwell/Cathedral saddle flags become essential


oldmatt above said great thing about Social Media reflecting user type and experience level. This holds true regardless if it is BC Coast or Rockies, and this is why Apocalypse feedback is so different
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post #15 of (permalink) Old 10-21-2021, 12:54 AM
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Good job on removing those eye sores. Baggers Challenge flags alot of stuff nowadays on the N.Shore
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