Joffre Lakes has gone F*in INSANE - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

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post #16 of (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 08:23 PM
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Looks like a gondola up there is not too far off the horizon.
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 03:14 AM
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After working in outdoor retail for ovet a year I can confirm that fake "outdoorsy" people always go for Garibaldi, Chief, Joffre, Grind, and probably Lynn Canyon. Very few know of anything else.
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 10:19 AM
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After working in outdoor retail for ovet a year I can confirm that fake "outdoorsy" people always go for Garibaldi, Chief, Joffre, Grind, and probably Lynn Canyon. Very few know of anything else.
Good point and you can add the main trail at Lynn Headwaters.
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 10:47 AM
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"Fake" outdoorsy people aren't nearly as offensive as ("real"?) outdoorsy people who look down upon others in a judgey way. There's got to be room in this world for people who only want to get out occasionally and to go to well-known, safe environments.
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 12:20 PM
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Default Popularity killed Joffre

We did the Cerise creek hike about a month ago. Drove up early enough to get a good start on the trail. As we passed Joffre on the way up not many cars had accumulated. But on the way back it was a circus. By the way lots of wasp nests on the Cerise creek trail. Very aggressive I might add. Quite a few people were stung.

I used to love camping at Taylor creek campground. But wont do it during peak season. Garibaldi is also a victim of it's own success. Garibaldi lake is swarming with people now. I would not even consider drawing water from the lake for drinking.

Brew lake is quite a nice hike. We were up there roughly 3 weeks back. The road up there does get rough. I counted 3 or 4 medium washouts. Where I had to put the Tacoma in 4x4 drive to go over them. I would definitely recommend a higher clearance vehicle for that destination.

I really think the cat is out of the bag where the major hiking spots are concerned. It is to the point where mid week hikes are the way to go. But for us Monday to Friday work folk are concerned it's not so good.
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 01:16 PM
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"Fake" outdoorsy people aren't nearly as offensive as ("real"?) outdoorsy people who look down upon others in a judgey way. There's got to be room in this world for people who only want to get out occasionally and to go to well-known, safe environments.
Yup, agreed. One of BC Parks mandates is to provide "province-wide opportunities for a diversity of high quality and safe outdoor recreation that is compatible with protecting the natural environment". Maybe us "real" outdoorsy types would like all locales to be less available to the outdoor "fakes", but that's just not how it works. Government has a mandate to provide for all citizens, not just a select few. Yes, Joffre seems de-naturalized when so many people are there but who knows how many people developed a greater respect and affection for our forest/mountain environment because of visits to places like that. Us "Real" outdoor types? we have plenty of places to get away from the maddening crowd.
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Candy Sack View Post
"Fake" outdoorsy people aren't nearly as offensive as ("real"?) outdoorsy people who look down upon others in a judgey way. There's got to be room in this world for people who only want to get out occasionally and to go to well-known, safe environments.
True. But real problem is ever growing population size that competes for constant number of resources. This is true in workspace, transportation, everywhere. Looking down on 'non-experts' is defensive reaction "I know more than you do, thus I am better than you, thus this should be mine and not yours".

Of course there's got to be room for everyone. But if you want to make beautiful area like Joffre Lakes wide open, it requires non-trivial planning that goes beyond trail construction. It was not rocket science to foresee traffic jams if parking was left the same. Overrun trail brings garbage and erosion. Etc, etc. Some sort of trail quota on first come basis will soon have to be considered.
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 03:43 PM
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But if you want to make beautiful area like Joffre Lakes wide open, it requires non-trivial planning that goes beyond trail construction. It was not rocket science to foresee traffic jams if parking was left the same. Overrun trail brings garbage and erosion. Etc, etc. Some sort of trail quota on first come basis will soon have to be considered.
Exactly, a regulated approach may be needed on 'peak' days, fine with me but that should be part of strategic planning. As i posted below, Joffre is managed under an approved plan that was authored in 1989 then approved by BC Parks in 1990. What kind of planning is that? Much has changed since then. No government, not NDP or Liberal, has revisited the plan in a meaningful way.

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post #24 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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News got a hold of me to ask for some commentary, I used the opportunity to soapbox about how our SAR departments are stretched to the limits and about the growing lack of common sense on display in these remote Alpine environments.

Better than just slipping away to lesser known spots and letting this fester until someone dies, I guess.

Edit: Unfortunately they cut 99% of that out and used the most bland snippets possible. Bloody journalists.
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post #25 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Candy Sack View Post
"Fake" outdoorsy people aren't nearly as offensive as ("real"?) outdoorsy people who look down upon others in a judgey way. There's got to be room in this world for people who only want to get out occasionally and to go to well-known, safe environments.
Yup.


"Fake" and "real"? Come on folks, be better than that. The people "ruining" your hikes probably have no idea of trail etiquette and no, it's (evidently) not common sense. Ppl have to start somewhere and unfortunately, right now, ppl are starting by the masses and that's part of the issue. The holier-than-thou tone, name calling, and complaining wont fix it. What might help fix it is providing more public education and encouraging better behavior - a long/slow process for sure but way more effective than segregating and insulting people.
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 09:04 PM
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Yup.


"Fake" and "real"? Come on folks, be better than that. The people "ruining" your hikes probably have no idea of trail etiquette and no, it's (evidently) not common sense. Ppl have to start somewhere and unfortunately, right now, ppl are starting by the masses and that's part of the issue. The holier-than-thou tone, name calling, and complaining wont fix it. What might help fix it is providing more public education and encouraging better behavior - a long/slow process for sure but way more effective than segregating and insulting people.
Yes ... agreed.

Many people want to enjoy the outdoors, and likely many are beginning to realize we have a great outdoors that needs to be checked and explored... so we could have a whole mass of newbies.

Perhaps this will evolve where many of these people will gain experience and move onto other less heavily used places.

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post #27 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 09:39 PM
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Perhaps this will evolve where many of these people will gain experience and move onto other less heavily used places.

K
that's exactly what happens. Ya gotta start somewhere and it's fair to say most of us were "fake" outdoorsy people at one time. Hiking the more travelled routes just opened our eyes to wander further.

BC needs more of these readily accessed locations.

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post #28 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Somewhere on here there's a starry-eyed trip report of me hiking to Norvan, decked out in denim in the pouring rain in April. A couple years later I solo'd the Stein Traverse.

It's a matter of education, not shitting on people. The problem is that Joffre has hit a critical mass of foot traffic, creating an environment of complacency in which you cannot educate people. MoT needs to remove the ability to park on the highway in order to greatly reduce the daily capacity, thus restoring the feeling of "Wilderness" to the area, which will make it harder for people to shrug off safety concerns by virtue of being surrounded by fellow humans. The concern should not be "fake" hikers clogging the parks for perceived "lesser" uses, but that hikers being introduced to the backcountry at Joffre will develop bad habits which could harm them if they carry them over to a more demanding trip such as Wedgemount or Athelney.
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Sack View Post
"Fake" outdoorsy people aren't nearly as offensive as ("real"?) outdoorsy people who look down upon others in a judgey way. There's got to be room in this world for people who only want to get out occasionally and to go to well-known, safe environments.
There's room for everyone in the back country....unfortunately there are no "safe" environments there. Some trails/hikes are safer than others, but once you put yourself beyond the reach of the firefighters and paramedics, it's a different environment. You have to know how to dress, what to carry and how to act in the event of an emergency or medical event. I really dislike the term "fake outdoorsy people" but it does describe a group of individuals who are more often than not, unprepared.
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post #30 of (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 01:50 AM
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speaking of drawing water from the upper lake and the stream feeding it, no problem really 10 plus years ago.


Now stories of people feces upstream and food particles/chunks floating around are common and very true. Semaphore is heading for the same.
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