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post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 02:21 PM
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$1.25 Million per hut?!? I know the ACC is made of gold plated boomers, but this is a joke.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 02:30 PM
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Okay if you think Garibaldi Park is busy now. Wait until these huts are built. I have enjoyed camping in this park on and off for thirty years. Big gap in between(kids needed some upbringing). But with my last few trips I am starting to look else where. I have witnessed people dumping their garbage at the cook shelter in Taylor campground, dogs off leash on the Garibaldi lake trail and late night parties at Elfin lakes campground. Guess that's what happens when the masses find and make a spot popular.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 02:34 PM
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$1.25 Million per hut?!? I know the ACC is made of gold plated boomers, but this is a joke.
On the other hand, the backcountry is littered with garbage huts that were useful for a while before they turned into rodent infested piles of rotting wood. The price seems right for building something to last.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 02:57 PM
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There's a fine middle ground between tossing up a plywood & sheetmetal emergency shelter for a couple grand, like the early BCMC / VOC cabins, and pouring millions into a backcountry Hilton.

A great example of that middle ground would be Elfin, which is in great shape after 40 years of harsh weather conditions. Or the new BCMC hut at Watersprite, the budget for which is under $60k. The old ACC certainly didn't drop mad cash building Abbot Pass back in the 20's and it remains an utter delight to visit a century later, and I might as well namedrop the Conrad Kain hut here too since it's still rock solid and cost nothing compared to this absurd proposal.

This is outrageously unnecessary and a sad waste of money. Confusingly most ACC huts aren't even that fancy, so I don't know where $1.25m per hut could possibly be spent.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 03:37 PM
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There's a fine middle ground between tossing up a plywood & sheetmetal emergency shelter for a couple grand, like the early BCMC / VOC cabins, and pouring millions into a backcountry Hilton.

A great example of that middle ground would be Elfin, which is in great shape after 40 years of harsh weather conditions. Or the new BCMC hut at Watersprite, the budget for which is under $60k. The old ACC certainly didn't drop mad cash building Abbot Pass back in the 20's and it remains an utter delight to visit a century later, and I might as well namedrop the Conrad Kain hut here too since it's still rock solid and cost nothing compared to this absurd proposal.

This is outrageously unnecessary and a sad waste of money. Confusingly most ACC huts aren't even that fancy, so I don't know where $1.25m per hut could possibly be spent.

I'm not involved with either project but I think they are both good projects and I trust the people that are putting them together.

Here are both proposals (I believe there have been some changes since these documents were created):
http://www.spearheadhuts.org/wp-cont...2014-12-02.pdf
https://waterspritecabin.files.wordp...posal-v2-6.pdf

A few things to note:
- The Russet Hut will have about 10 times as many bed-nights per year as Watersprite so some things are more expensive. (e.g. It's a larger building, there is a need to install a water tank/pump instead of everyone melting water, there is a caretaker room, etc.)
- The Russet Hut is in a park and I have no doubt that leads to increased needs for surveying, environmental precautions, etc. (e.g. they will fly out human waste instead of having a pit toilet. Toilet/greywater system capital costs for Russet are estimated at $25,000 vs $500 for Watersprite outhouse)
- The Spearhead Hut proposal counts in-kind (volunteer hours, etc.) in the total cost number and I don't think the BCMC proposal does (maybe I am reading that wrong.)

There is no doubt the Russet Hut will be more luxurious than the Waterprite Hut (see page 19 int the ACC proposal,) but once you factor in everything else, the project costs seem appropriate.

My concern with the project is ensuring that access remains fair for all users. I'd like to have seen a guarantee that the WB backcountry access pass (one ride up) is locked in at a certain price (e.g. 25% of the cost of a full-day lift ticket) and also a guarantee that BC Parks would continue to invest in upgrading/fixing/maintaining the Singing Pass trail. I'm worried about the risk that volunteers/donors build the huts but then it becomes increasingly impractical to access the hut if you aren't a paying WB customer.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 03:49 PM
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I read somewhere that BC Parks was going to upgrade the Russet Lake hut or Himelsbach hut as I remember it. The ACC also has the cabins at lake Lovely Water doesn't it.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 05:31 PM
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My concern with the project is ensuring that access remains fair for all users. I'd like to have seen a guarantee that the WB backcountry access pass (one ride up) is locked in at a certain price (e.g. 25% of the cost of a full-day lift ticket) and also a guarantee that BC Parks would continue to invest in upgrading/fixing/maintaining the Singing Pass trail. I'm worried about the risk that volunteers/donors build the huts but then it becomes increasingly impractical to access the hut if you aren't a paying WB customer.
Definitely a valid concern.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 11:05 PM
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I might as well namedrop the Conrad Kain hut here too since it's still rock solid and cost nothing compared to this absurd proposal.
Are you sure about that? The C Kain hut even has its own hydro power generator. Got a cost estimate in 2016 dollars for building that hut today?
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash View Post
Okay if you think Garibaldi Park is busy now. Wait until these huts are built. I have enjoyed camping in this park on and off for thirty years. Big gap in between(kids needed some upbringing). But with my last few trips I am starting to look else where. I have witnessed people dumping their garbage at the cook shelter in Taylor campground, dogs off leash on the Garibaldi lake trail and late night parties at Elfin lakes campground. Guess that's what happens when the masses find and make a spot popular.
I could be wrong but maybe this is more an issue of far too many people concentrated in too few places and actually a sign that we need more infrastructure in the park? Would huts in the Spearhead take a little pressure off Elfin/Rubble Creek?

I'm not thrilled about the idea of putting three new huts on the Spearhead. It is an area that is routinely accessed in a day and I'd like to see the infrastructure allowing access deeper into the park (e.g. two huts on the spearhead and one further back on the McBride).

That being said, it sounds like they are going forward so at this point, I'd really just like to see open access to users as @seventy mentions, not terribly expensive, and improved trail networks in the area for the summer. Imagine a national parks quality trail around the spearhead? That would be awesome!
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 03:14 PM
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ecarter1 I could be wrong but maybe this is more an issue of far too many people concentrated in too few places and actually a sign that we need more infrastructure in the park? Would huts in the Spearhead take a little pressure off Elfin/Rubble Creek?
It's a coincidence that you should mention the above. We backpacked into Russet lake last year. We started late in Whistler village. Took the gondola and chair that off loads near Whistler peak. Always wanted to do the musical bumps.We got to the last bump(Oboe I believe). But it was getting late so we set up camp there. We virtually had the place to ourselves. Got up the next morning and continued on to Russet lake. Upon arriving we observed that most of the tent sites were taken. After talking to the campers there. We discovered that it was a guided commercial tour group of twelve. hehe had to line up for the outhouse the next morning.

Anyway ecarter1 I totally agree that that there is too many people concentrated in one or two areas of Garibaldi park. As a matter of fact they had to build more tent pads at Rampart ponds to take the load off of Elfin lake campground. I think That BC Parks needs to limit the size of the groups like Washington state does.
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