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post #31 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 06:19 PM
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There are private cabins up there. How can they gate the road ?
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post #32 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 06:52 PM
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There are private cabins up there. How can they gate the road ?
Not sure, either those people have keys or there is a gatekeeper that lets them in I suppose (?)
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post #33 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 07:57 PM
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There are private cabins up there. How can they gate the road ?
According to the following tweet Cabin owners are not affected: https://twitter.com/Cypressmtn/statu...82114650157057
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post #34 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 08:10 PM
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So far the mainstream media won't touch the story at all on Twitter. I suspect a conflict of interest as many may run ads for the local mountains. Not that journalistic favouritism is a new concept of course.

Feel free to join me in the effort, I suspect it will take a lot of effort and voices to get this fixed
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post #35 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 09:03 PM
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Not sure, either those people have keys or there is a gatekeeper that lets them in I suppose (?)
Regarding the lower blockade next to the municipal works yard, there is a gatekeeper, no gate. You drive up, chat with him and he either tells you sorry bud gotta wait til 7am or he moves the steel gate out of the way while you drive through. Lots of staff, trucks for restaurant, etc. going up before 7am.

Regarding the upper blockade next to the lodge which opens at 9am:
I don't think they care about people crossing the ski area in the PM hours, there is lots of parking available there at night. In the morning is when parking is at a premium. The road gate at the bottom opens at 7am and backcountry gates beside the lodge open at 9am. A mass crossing of the area in the morining before 9am would have more impact.
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post #36 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 09:17 PM
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I had the chance to speak with Steve, who wrote the original article. He had a meeting with a manager on Cypress and explored all of the issues. As of now the manager does not want to change the policy he implemented but did give the impression that he was open to future discussion. I have volunteered myself for possible meetings so will let you know if that ends up happening.

Apparently, as anyone would guess there are plenty of issues.

First of all, I was not correct re the gate on the road. It opens at 7 am same as it does on Seymour. Of course, this does not help anyone who wants to do a sunrise climb in ski season.

The problem has been that people trying for b/c access have not been being allowed to cross the ski runs until 9 am. Obviously this has led to a lot of conflict and disagreement with everyone concerned.
That has been complicated by the fact that they all wait alongside people waiting for the lifts to open.

He says that according to the park tenure they have they are actually even allowed to charge for parking but have never chosen to do so. They are also allowed to control access to the road re safety concerns. The park pays for plowing the road and parking lot 3B, and they plow the remainder, apparently.

I think it makes sense to propose some kind of permit system or change access points but I'm not sure how it all might work. I do know that to get to trailheads on that side you don't have much distance to cross on the ski run

At any rate as I said I have reached out and will let you know what, if anything, happens. Up until now I was not sure if the resort would entertain any kind of discussion so I hope it all goes somewhere positive, fingers crossed
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post #37 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 09:18 PM
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Regarding the lower blockade next to the municipal works yard, there is a gatekeeper, no gate. You drive up, chat with him and he either tells you sorry bud gotta wait til 7am or he moves the steel gate out of the way while you drive through. Lots of staff, trucks for restaurant, etc. going up before 7am.

Regarding the upper blockade next to the lodge which opens at 9am:
I don't think they care about people crossing the ski area in the PM hours, there is lots of parking available there at night. In the morning is when parking is at a premium. The road gate at the bottom opens at 7am and backcountry gates beside the lodge open at 9am. A mass crossing of the area in the morining before 9am would have more impact.
See my last post, i was wrong about the road gate opening time, Martin
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post #38 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 10:23 PM
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I'd like to provide an update on this situation. A B.C. Parks' Ranger contacted us today as a follow up to our email enquiry.

He explained that Parks' has indeed implemented a new policy, and were negligent in updating their website and the singage on the mountain. He was very apologetic and took full responsibility for the confusion and lack of information.

The website has now been updated to include:

Please Note: All Public Access to the Cypress Controlled Recreation Area is restricted to the hours of 9 AM to 10 PM due to significant hazards posed by avalanche control and grooming operations.
Would you mind PMing me his email address? I'd like to have a word with him just to ask him a few questions if that's OK by you
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post #39 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 12:43 AM
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I get so angry, upset, outraged etc by the betrayal of all park principles by BC parks that I have to stop thinking about it. Utterly cynical about the seemingly inevitable full takeover (with taxpayer subsidies!) of any possibly monetized areas of the parks by corporate interests, up to and beyond an exclusive luxury townhouse and and chalet development on the shores of Garibaldi. And why stop there? They're winning, and I must accept it. I weep and shake with rage, then go with life, I won't let this ruin all other aspects of my life.
I am not going to be stupid and take direct action such as using my bush ability and mechanical skill to appear, do quick efficient knowledgeable damage to cost them huge revenue and vanish in the winter fog. That way lies madness! I absolutely will stand with a thousand others to cross that corridor in front of cameras demanding that we all get arrested along with anyone else who shows up at police stations later saying "I was there, arrest me!"

How about it? Who's in? We need a lot, a lot would work. Do enough people care? Will a ball finally start to roll? I'm pushing, but it just ain't budging.

https://forums.clubtread.com/8-britis...-back-bus.html is a big thread about a different aspect of the same theme at Seymour. They won. I weep and shake with rage, and must stop torturing myself.
From that seymour thread: I said it then and it's still true.
Some seem to be overlooking the fact that Mount Seymour is a class A provincial park. That really changes the status of a commercial interest within it.
A class A park, under the park act is dedicated to the preservation of their natural environments for the inspiration, use and enjoyment of the public. Source.
A commercial ski hill doesn't fit that definition all that well. Moving right along... From BC Parks own website:
As a public trust, BC Parks' mission is to protect representative and special natural places within the province's Protected Areas System for world-class conservation, outdoor recreation, education and scientific study.

BC Parks is committed to serving British Columbians and their visitors by:

-protecting and managing for future generations a wide variety of outstanding park lands which represent the best natural features and diverse wilderness environments of the province.
-providing province-wide opportunities for a diversity of high quality and safe outdoor recreation that is compatible with protecting the natural environment.

Again, it does NOT state that maximizing profit of a private business is in the core values, and a ski hill is really stretching the "natural environment" bit.
A park is an inherently different operation than a private business. If there are so many people wishing to snowshoe that it is impacting Mount Seymour Resorts then let them build their own parking lots and shuttle their guests up! The people wishing to snowshoe (or other backcountry use, of course) are the owners of the park. It explicitly exists for them to enjoy. Mount Seymour Resorts are permitted to be there as a special privilege, as long as they don't interfere with the more legitimate park users.

I realize that this is a rather idealistic view, but aren't public parks supposed to embody the principle of public access and free family entertainment in the great outdoors over the rights of private business to maximize profits? Mount Seymour Provincial Park should be managed in a manner that upholds BC Parks mission statement. I know mission statements in the corporate world have absolutely nothing to do with operations, they are just there for PR, but I would rather hope that BC Parks would be operated in accordance.

And while we're talking about how BC Parks manages the commercial interests within the parks, shouldn't they ban the use of loud, smelly, polluting 2-stroke snowmobiles, and insist on cleaner, quieter 4-strokes? Snowmobiles are, of course, vital for emergencies, but there are far less obnoxious ones available.


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post #40 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 04:47 PM
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This past weekend we had a parking attendant stop us on the road up Cypress (it was approx. 11:30 a.m.), just before the downhill area. He was causing a major traffic jam and stopping EVERY car (it was like lining up and going through the border to the USA!). As we were speaking to him, we could hear instructions on his radio from his co worker instructing that he turn any cars around who were not coming up to ski. He confirmed to his colleague that was what he was doing. They do allow you to go through if you say you are skiing or dropping off or picking up your kids ... so that is what we said ... found parking, got out and collected our snowshoes from our trunk and carried on our way to hike up Black Mountain (just a hint if you encounter this guy or any of his co workers).

Not sure why such a dramatic increase in the influx of visitors to our beloved Cypress, but the resort would do better to start an education campaign for their new eager ski/boarding visitors on how to show respect to fellow skiers/hikers/snowshoers, enforce a NO SMOKING policy, educate these newbies about NOT LITTERING (and fine them if they are caught littering/smoking withing the park), not yelling at each other in their conversations, and educate how to safely stop without crashing into other skiers/boarders or hikers who are passing through past the lift lines. Education on driving in winter conditions and the mandatory use of snow tires would also be beneficial to all those of us who encounter the unprepared drivers we see on our way up and down the mountain.

Cypress is PROVINCIAL PARK and as such the resort staff have no jurisdiction over me or my fellow hikers if we choose to come up for a hike at any time of day. Born and raised here in Vancouver, it is a foreign idea to me that I should be told that I cannot access the park or that I cannot enter certain areas at certain times. This is not the Cypress I grew up with ... can we please just have our nice,clean, quaint, laid back, quiet Cypress Mountain back??
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post #41 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 04:47 PM
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On the chance that I might have the chance to present any information to the parks or resorts I encourage anyone to weigh in on this thread with ideas for improving this situation or other issues I may not have considered. Situation is not good right now but there has to be a compromise here somewhere
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post #42 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 05:30 PM
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You mean more of a compromise than allowing a commercial enterprise priority use of large section of one of our provincial parks for 7 months of the year? How do you compromise when the issue is unrestricted access along the agreed upon unrestricted access corridor? To be honest I don't believe that Cypress is interested in any kind of compromise. Why would they be? They have permission to do this, it's in their best interests and beyond a "few" complaining backcountry users there is zero impact to them.

I think it's more likely they'll try to drag out any discussion on this until the season ends and they just don't care anymore. Then we'll start back at square one next year. Personally, I think there should be no compromise offered and people should just access the area as they like, when they like and Cypress can just call the police for trespassers each/every time. Do not react aggressively or rudely with any of the employees at Cypress though. They are just doing their jobs and regardless if they're aggressive and rude about it, that is no reason to respond in kind.

I'd also love to see NSR take a stand with us on this. There are clear safety issues around this issue and their voice would carry a lot of weight with Cypress and with TPTB.
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post #43 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mick range View Post
On the chance that I might have the chance to present any information to the parks or resorts I encourage anyone to weigh in on this thread with ideas for improving this situation or other issues I may not have considered. Situation is not good right now but there has to be a compromise here somewhere
If the issue is parking, then a solution would be a dedicated backcountry user parking area. To me the logical place would be the north end of the long "Highway Lot" where the overnight parking is. I don't mind walking a bit if it means earlier access. To address the problem pointed out in JP's post yesterday:
Quote:
Over the xmas break I witnessed a parking attendant yell at a guy who hadn't parked to his satisfaction in the backcountry lot. He said if he didn't move his car he would call the police.
perhaps they could paint a few lines in that area where they would like the cars to park.

As far as access before 9am goes, The Whistler/Blackcomb policy of allowing backcountry skiers to return to the village after hours via their ski runs, as long as they watch for grooming machines, seems reasonable. Surely Cypress could do the same thing for us backcountry users for crossing a 20m segment of their ski run. Perhaps some WB backcountry skiers here could comment on how that arrangement is working?
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post #44 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 07:58 PM
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Hi All,
I wrote the original blog and have written an update.
https://medium.com/@stevejoneshikes/...f4e#.phmswo8mc

I appreciate that there are a lot of emotions around this subject. Some people object to the idea that a resort should be able to operate within a provincial park in the first place. However, that ship sailed a long time ago (with a different set of people in government and in control of the resort,) and what's important is finding a way for all users to co-exist today. It's my opinion that if we didn't have the resort, we also wouldn't have a plowed road and that's worth keeping in mind.

I've become very familiar with the Master Plan for the park and other arrangements such as the Park Use Permit and I'm trying to suggest the most logical path forward that is most likely going to give us a positive outcome.

We also need to acknowledge that it's counter productive to frame this as users vs the resort. Many of the users are tax-paying residents of BC that engage in downhill and cross-country skiing and one of the roles of the park is to support them in those endeavors. You might not agree with that, but it's in the master plan for the park.

As a next step, I think that we should be taking a closer look at how parks are funded and whether those levels have kept up with increasing use. I think we should also ask how access could be improved with incremental levels of funding from the provincial government.

I think we have the opportunity to get on the same team with the resort and other stakeholders to fix some problems. I am strongly opposed to any kind of direct action.
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post #45 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 09:31 PM
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Many of the users are tax-paying residents of BC that engage in downhill and cross-country skiing and one of the roles of the park is to support them in those endeavors.
I'm totally for providing downhill/cross-country users with resorts: I have a seasons pass at Cypress. But backcountry access doesn't mean that the lifts will suddenly stop working.
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