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post #31 of (permalink) Old 02-01-2015, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
What I do take umbrage with is irresponsible or selfish dog owners, of which there are many abusing the rules of our parks.
Agreed. In the case of Cerise, not a park, but point taken.

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Well since the official site of Keith's hut doesn't explicitly forbid smoking, death metal at 3am, colicky babies, or taking up half the place with your gear, I guess all of those things are a-ok.
If you're expecting the rest of the world to cater to your particular list of pet peeves (no pun intended) at a public hut, you're gonna have a bad time. With the exception of the death metal, I've encountered all of those at some point (how about someone burning a guitar and various other wooden fixtures from the hut?). I would necessarily be stoked to encounter any of them, but I am canny enough to know that any/all or worse could be in store for me. You can always reserve a hut if sharing with the masses ain't ideal.

We all have a laundry list of things we'd rather not have affect our trip, and everyone list is different, with various items higher or lower in importance. This doesn't give anyone the right to impose their preferences on another user, unless that user is actually violating an agreed-upon and marked "rule", normally decided upon by the party responsible for the hut.
In the specific case of dogs, I hardly think that anyone responsible for a hut hasn't weighed the issue, and if they haven't disallowed it, it's up to the dog owner to measure the value of the idea, and who is anyone else to say anything other than " I would prefer there not to be dogs"?
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post #32 of (permalink) Old 02-01-2015, 07:07 PM
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I would prefer there not to be dogs.
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post #33 of (permalink) Old 02-01-2015, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Ian View Post
Agreed. In the case of Cerise, not a park, but point taken.



If you're expecting the rest of the world to cater to your particular list of pet peeves (no pun intended) at a public hut, you're gonna have a bad time. With the exception of the death metal, I've encountered all of those at some point (how about someone burning a guitar and various other wooden fixtures from the hut?). I would necessarily be stoked to encounter any of them, but I am canny enough to know that any/all or worse could be in store for me. You can always reserve a hut if sharing with the masses ain't ideal.
And I would posit that these are all examples of "bad etiquette". You know, the question that the original poster added. In case you need a reminder, "etiquette is the set of written and unwritten rules (emphasis mine) of conduct that make social interactions run more smoothly.". He didn't ask "what he could get away with", or if "he would get kicked out for bringing his dog", but what is the general etiquette. Based on the fact that the largest national operator of huts, does specifically prohibit dogs from their facilities, I stand by my response. The general etiquette is to not bring pets. Just as I would advise that smoking inside, playing death metal, and (as what discussed here last year) and bringing your 3 months old, is not the proper etiquette of hut usage

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We all have a laundry list of things we'd rather not have affect our trip, and everyone list is different, with various items higher or lower in importance. This doesn't give anyone the right to impose their preferences on another user, unless that user is actually violating an agreed-upon and marked "rule", normally decided upon by the party responsible for the hut.
However its perfectly OK for you to "impose" your preferences on everyone else because? Again, as I mentioned before, for every "ass hat" rule maker, there is an "ass hat" do whatever I want without consideration of anyone else.

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post #34 of (permalink) Old 02-02-2015, 03:49 PM
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Well next time you're at Keith's, you just go tell people they can't bring dogs in cause the ACC sez so.
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post #35 of (permalink) Old 02-02-2015, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kellymcdonald78 View Post
And I would posit that these are all examples of "bad etiquette". You know, the question that the original poster added. In case you need a reminder, "etiquette is the set of written and unwritten rules (emphasis mine) of conduct that make social interactions run more smoothly.". He didn't ask "what he could get away with", or if "he would get kicked out for bringing his dog", but what is the general etiquette. Based on the fact that the largest national operator of huts, does specifically prohibit dogs from their facilities, I stand by my response. The general etiquette is to not bring pets. Just as I would advise that smoking inside, playing death metal, and (as what discussed here last year) and bringing your 3 months old, is not the proper etiquette of hut usage

However its perfectly OK for you to "impose" your preferences on everyone else because? Again, as I mentioned before, for every "ass hat" rule maker, there is an "ass hat" do whatever I want without consideration of anyone else.
i) I realize this discussion has extended beyond the pale of the OP's original question. I think he's had his question answered. As John inferred, some people REALLY don't like dogs at huts and aren't afraid to say so.

ii) I'm not disagreeing that you might think that these constitute poor etiquette. Personally, I agree that these all suck. All I'm saying is if this is your list, that other guy hates different things, and his buddy different things again. That couple from Argentina over there? They hate different things from you too. The gang of guys here on a stag? Different stuff. The 6th grade field trip with 4 exhausted parent chaperones? Totally different stuff. And any and all might happen in a public hut, just like a bus stop or parking lot or any public place. The point is, just because you're not a fan of dogs doesn't mean that the owners are jerks for bringing a dog where one is allowed. It's not just about you and your needs.

If you take it as fact that some people that stay in huts also like dogs, and that there are whole many (and diverse) huts that specifically disallow dogs, it stands to reason that these hut users will likely honour the wishes of the non-dog huts and use the huts without specific no-dog policies, as they can. As such, if you're visiting a hut without a specific no-dog policy/rule, it's fair to say that you may run into a party with a dog, and regardless of your personal preferences, they have every right to be there as well. One could as well argue that it's poor etiquette to discriminate against the dog owner, when they're allowed to be there as much as you. It's not them choosing to "impose", they're allowed to be there, assuming they're being responsible for their dog. Don't like dogs? As mentioned, stay at an ACC hut, or book your destination out. Or stay wherever, and suck it up when you have to, like everyone does.

Now if you're at an ACC hut and someone has their dog inside, have at 'er. Your stand-by response will be appropriate, and likely welcome.

iii) I would say your last paragraph could easily apply both ways, and might also be called bad etiquette. It's more than a little ironic to be demanding consideration when offering none. And thanks for the definition of etiquette, I had no idea . It would be easy to make any difference of opinion a issue of "etiquette" if you push it to unrealistic ends.
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post #36 of (permalink) Old 02-02-2015, 10:53 PM
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There would be a considerable difference in bringing a dog(s) and hanging out, near or at the hut for the day.
Versus staying the night and people trying to prepare dinner and getting their sleeping arrangements in order and tripping over pets and likely having to watch their food etc.
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post #37 of (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Ian View Post

Uh Ian. Many huts are built privately and don't have policies. So yeah there are no policies against dogs because there simply are no policies. So the huts by and large go by the very Canadian thing of "don't be a douchebag".

FWIW most people who've built or been involved in working on huts would say that dogs aren't the best thing to throw into a mix into a hut - for the reasons that AT suggested.

To give an example of Keiths Hut (before it was a prov park) most dog-owners who brought dogs also brought tents and slept in the tent with their dogs. The only time I saw a dog in the hut it ate other people's food off the table.

My point? No point really other than try to be considerate.
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post #38 of (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 04:29 PM
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i) I realize this discussion has extended beyond the pale of the OP's original question. I think he's had his question answered. As John inferred, some people REALLY don't like dogs at huts and aren't afraid to say so.

ii) I'm not disagreeing that you might think that these constitute poor etiquette. Personally, I agree that these all suck. All I'm saying is if this is your list, that other guy hates different things, and his buddy different things again. That couple from Argentina over there? They hate different things from you too. The gang of guys here on a stag? Different stuff. The 6th grade field trip with 4 exhausted parent chaperones? Totally different stuff. And any and all might happen in a public hut, just like a bus stop or parking lot or any public place. The point is, just because you're not a fan of dogs doesn't mean that the owners are jerks for bringing a dog where one is allowed. It's not just about you and your needs.

If it were just the two of us in a hut, you might have a point. However it's not "just about me and my needs", by bringing a pet you are making the decision on behalf everyone. If there are 10 people staying overnight, you have decided that everyone gets to sleep with your dog, regardless of their preferences or dislikes. Some may be ok with it, some may not, but doesn't matter, you've decided and everyone else can "suck it up". Bringing a tent to sleep outside with your pet only affects you (and your dog)

Quote:
If you take it as fact that some people that stay in huts also like dogs, and that there are whole many (and diverse) huts that specifically disallow dogs, it stands to reason that these hut users will likely honour the wishes of the non-dog huts and use the huts without specific no-dog policies, as they can. As such, if you're visiting a hut without a specific no-dog policy/rule, it's fair to say that you may run into a party with a dog, and regardless of your personal preferences, they have every right to be there as well. One could as well argue that it's poor etiquette to discriminate against the dog owner, when they're allowed to be there as much as you. It's not them choosing to "impose", they're allowed to be there, assuming they're being responsible for their dog. Don't like dogs? As mentioned, stay at an ACC hut, or book your destination out. Or stay wherever, and suck it up when you have to, like everyone does.

Great so when I play loud music at 3am, "fart on your entrée", or take up 4 bunks with my gear, you'll just "suck it up". After all, there are no specific "don't fart on people's entrée" rules, and those are just my personal preferences, and you wouldn't want to discriminate against the late night music lover


Quote:
Now if you're at an ACC hut and someone has their dog inside, have at 'er. Your stand-by response will be appropriate, and likely welcome.

iii) I would say your last paragraph could easily apply both ways, and might also be called bad etiquette. It's more than a little ironic to be demanding consideration when offering none. And thanks for the definition of etiquette, I had no idea . It would be easy to make any difference of opinion a issue of "etiquette" if you push it to unrealistic ends.

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. There is a term for people who make decisions and expect everyone else to "suck it up", but its not very polite.
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post #39 of (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 05:36 PM
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it's like when you bring gum to Grade 1. "I hope you brought enough for everyone..."
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post #40 of (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 06:43 PM
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In these public places, I fully expect that I'm not going to have a great night sleep for one or more of the reasons mentioned above, or any number of other bits of fresh hellll that people can dream up. I don't know much, but I do know that not everyone has the same idea of socially acceptable that I do (dang them!).

BTW, If someone farted in my entree after a long day on the trail, or ever, they would promptly experience retaliatory violence in the manner of my spork up their ass complete with several noodles of the rotini variety.

It makes sense that people should be considerate to all users, but everyone has a different idea about what this means. So whether it's left to users to decide what's ok, or there are written usage rules (that not everyone will follow anyway), there will always be grumpy people at some point.

Personally, after several communal sleeping experiences, I'd rather sleep in a tent with or without a dog than with 25 stinky, snoring, farting, restless hikers in one room!
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post #41 of (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 06:52 PM
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Personally, after several communal sleeping experiences, I'd rather sleep in a tent with or without a dog than with 25 stinky, snoring, farting, restless hikers in one room!
My thoughts exactly.. **** is other people.

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post #42 of (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 09:34 PM
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it's like when you bring gum to Grade 1. "I hope you brought enough for everyone..."
My eyes are bad. At first I read 'gun', and was thinking, well that's Texas.
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post #43 of (permalink) Old 02-04-2015, 02:32 AM
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it's like when you bring gum to Grade 1. "I hope you brought enough for everyone..."
When I was in school, gum chewing was not allowed. Even the sight of gum in the school was not allowed. I once got caught with gum in school and was suspended 3 days. Ah, the good old days...

But seriously, having done a lot of hiking on the Long Trail in Vermont, which has cabins and Adirondack shelters (3-sided) spaced about a day's hike apart the length of the trail, 99% of the time there were no conflicts with hikers in these shelters. And nearly everyone used the shelters, just a few others brought tents. And those were good old days for me and many other hikers there. Even with the few hikers with dogs.

But in Beautiful BC I've have had a few bad experiences, mainly one I'll never forget in the Russet Lake hut. There was one boy about 18 who kept swearing, really bad swearing, in a loud voice, almost the entire time I was there. I even moved to the outhouse for a while to get away from him (and the non-stop rain).
This trip was one of the last backpacking trips I took without a tent.
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post #44 of (permalink) Old 02-04-2015, 02:44 AM
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bringing a tent is great to keep your options open and keep your sanity if you have troubled guests at a cabin. Sadly having to bring a tent is almost desirable and necessary, just because the chances of running into extremely weird people and pets at huts have increased a lot over the years. Obviously this also adds extra weight and preparation to a trip.


Why is it that losers always get run of the cabin? should be the other way around, no???
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post #45 of (permalink) Old 02-04-2015, 10:23 PM
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But in Beautiful BC I've have had a few bad experiences, mainly one I'll never forget in the Russet Lake hut. There was one boy about 18 who kept swearing, really bad swearing, in a loud voice, almost the entire time I was there. I even moved to the outhouse for a while to get away from him (and the non-stop rain).
This trip was one of the last backpacking trips I took without a tent.




I can't believe this person moved to the outhouse to get away from someone swearing. That's some funny $hit right there!!
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