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post #1 of (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
RGB
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Default Old Buck Trail, North Vancouver

The lowest section of the Old Buck Trail (the part from the Anne MacDonald Way parking lot trailhead up to the junction of the BP Trail) has over the past year undergone a few unnecessary changes.

Before these changes, this section of the Old Buck Trail was almost a straight line uphill. For reasons I don't know, the original trail - actually an old logging road leading eventually to Boulder Creek - has been changed so that there are several deviations from the straight line. And the former trailbed at these deviations has been made into a mess of churned up earth and chopped up trees and bushes.

Three photos of different places where the new trail deviates from the old.

Old trail on right side, going downhill.

Old trail on left side, going uphill.

Old trail on left side, going uphill.

The new sections of trail were made by cutting down trees and rerouting on the east side of the former trail. And several areas adjacent to the new trail sections are also masses of cut trees, bushes, and churned up earth.



What's the point of so much tree cutting when there's nothing wrong with the original trail? It's unlikely BC Parks has spare money in its budget for so useless a project as this.

Maybe these changes were done to make bikers go slower when going downhill (although most of them use this trail to go up to the more challenging trails to the west), instead of putting in more barriers. One problem with this is that sightlines for hikers and other bikers are much shorter: the original trail was so straight that you could see far ahead, but not now. When on the new sections especially, you can see only a few meters ahead.

This section of trail is within Mt. Seymour Prov. Park. Is there a BC parks document available to the public that explains the reason(s) for these changes? And what trail crew did the work? Park staff or an external trail crew?

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 05:34 PM
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Did some quick googling and uncovered this for you: http://nsmba.ca/content/2014-08_old-...ments-complete

"The goal for this project was to create a sustainable alignment that controls water and minimizes erosion while lessening sustained grade to improve user experience."
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 07:52 PM
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And in a year's time or less you probably won't even be able to see the old trail, it will have become so overgrown by then.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 12:31 AM
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Nubuck trail?
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
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quote:Originally posted by Gulagger

Did some quick googling and uncovered this for you: http://nsmba.ca/content/2014-08_old-...ments-complete

"The goal for this project was to create a sustainable alignment that controls water and minimizes erosion while lessening sustained grade to improve user experience."
Thanks for this. I had a suspicion that NSMBA was behind it. They have to spend their members dollars even on useless projects like this one. I've been on this section of trail for many years and never seen erosion, never mind serious erosion: after all, it's a road with a raised bed with ditches on both sides. Been that way for years.

And as for the detours on the new trail sections, some of them go downhill then back up, increasing the elevation gain uphill.

What I'd like to know is who initially proposed this project, and who in BC Parks planned and signed off on it.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by willis

And in a year's time or less you probably won't even be able to see the old trail, it will have become so overgrown by then.
Unlikely. The old road has been there for a century and the roadbed is still there. Which gives me an idea . . .
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by RGB

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Gulagger

Did some quick googling and uncovered this for you: http://nsmba.ca/content/2014-08_old-...ments-complete

"The goal for this project was to create a sustainable alignment that controls water and minimizes erosion while lessening sustained grade to improve user experience."
Thanks for this. I had a suspicion that NSMBA was behind it. They have to spend their members dollars even on useless projects like this one. I've been on this section of trail for many years and never seen erosion, never mind serious erosion: after all, it's a road with a raised bed with ditches on both sides. Been that way for years.

And as for the detours on the new trail sections, some of them go downhill then back up, increasing the elevation gain uphill.

What I'd like to know is who initially proposed this project, and who in BC Parks planned and signed off on it.
This was a BC Parks project which was contracted out to Rare Earth. If you read the NSMBA media release you will see they offer support for the project but nowhere does it state they were a part of it. Not quite sure what the big deal is here. It's a trail, it goes up, it takes you to the same spot the old trail did, just at less of a grade. The old line will be reclaimed by the forest.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by willis

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by RGB

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Gulagger

Did some quick googling and uncovered this for you: http://nsmba.ca/content/2014-08_old-...ments-complete

"The goal for this project was to create a sustainable alignment that controls water and minimizes erosion while lessening sustained grade to improve user experience."
Thanks for this. I had a suspicion that NSMBA was behind it. They have to spend their members dollars even on useless projects like this one. I've been on this section of trail for many years and never seen erosion, never mind serious erosion: after all, it's a road with a raised bed with ditches on both sides. Been that way for years.

And as for the detours on the new trail sections, some of them go downhill then back up, increasing the elevation gain uphill.

What I'd like to know is who initially proposed this project, and who in BC Parks planned and signed off on it.
This was a BC Parks project which was contracted out to Rare Earth. If you read the NSMBA media release you will see they offer support for the project but nowhere does it state they were a part of it. Not quite sure what the big deal is here. It's a trail, it goes up, it takes you to the same spot the old trail did, just at less of a grade. The old line will be reclaimed by the forest.
A search for Rare Earth lists many results. What Rare Earth are you referring to?

I have already listed the problems with this project, the main one being that it was completely unnecessary. Many trees were cut down, the trail is longer, elevation gain a little more, sightlines reduced to a few meters on the new trail sections.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Lupin

Nubuck trail?
Now that's cute LoL. Very quick witted I must say.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:41 PM
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 05:29 PM
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"The goal for this project was to create a sustainable alignment that controls water and minimizes erosion while lessening sustained grade to improve user experience."

I would guess Its so the kids ( or less fit riders) can ride up the hill and don't need their parents to shuttle them..
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 05:47 PM
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It also makes it easier going up and down for walkers/joggers.

If BC Parks doesn't do trail work people will complain. If they do trail work there will be those who complain it wasn't necessary or wasn't done the right way. This wasn't some remote wilderness trail that was paved over, it was a slight re-route of an old logging road. Some perspective of the big picture is needed here.
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by TylerD

"The goal for this project was to create a sustainable alignment that controls water and minimizes erosion while lessening sustained grade to improve user experience."

I would guess Its so the kids ( or less fit riders) can ride up the hill and don't need their parents to shuttle them..
Maybe, but the total elevation gain is now more, as I already said. If bikers can't ride the one or two steeper parts uphill, then they can walk their bike. And if hikers and walkers find it steep, they can walk slower. In fact the steepest parts have not been the ones that were rerouted. Suggesting that the places that were rerouted were random.

NSMBA already suggested New Buck (see link above). Too many trails have already been renamed by them and others. Good Samaritan now an offensive name I won't repeat here. And Ned's Atomic Dustbin, what a meaningless name for the long running original Mystery Creek trail. I bet most bikers don't even know this trail parallels Mystery Creek.
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 07:36 PM
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pretty sure you're the first and only person I've heard complain about this work
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post #15 of (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 07:50 PM
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NSMBA already suggested New Buck (see link above). Too many trails have already been renamed by them and others. Good Samaritan now an offensive name I won't repeat here. And Ned's Atomic Dustbin, what a meaningless name for the long running original Mystery Creek trail. I bet most bikers don't even know this trail parallels Mystery Creek.
What's with the hate-on for NSMBA? I think they do a lot of good work.
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