Planes over Garibaldi Park - ClubTread Community

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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Default Planes over Garibaldi Park

Discussion carried over from another thread.

I'm in the no-planes-thanks camp. Partly because a) I think "quiet" is also a natural resource worth protecting and Garibaldi is a nice, close to Vancouver refuge, but mostly because b) planes are only supposed to fly over Garibaldi Park as part of a flight path to another destination. Except the heli-skiing operation that quite a few of us are opposed to. And I guess that other operators have decided that if the heli-skiing is sanctioned then it's ok for them too.

I've said my piece; have at 'er!
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 01:04 AM
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I just spent 3 nights camped at Battleship Islands (Thursday, Friday, Saturday). Staring at about 8am and continuing until around 6 or 7pm there was a float plane or helicopter overhead about every 20-30min, most of them flying quite low. It definitely seemed excessive. Some of the planes/helicopters went quite close to Black Tusk and every single plane seemed to be flying deliberately over the lake. I don't doubt that many of these trips are "flight-seeing" operations. It is definitely excessive and was disruptive. Yes, there were tons of people at the lake and on the trails on the long weekend but none of the people were as noisy or disruptive as the aircraft. I would definitely like to see less aircraft over Garibaldi.

Another idea that was discussed among our group was to have each passenger in an aircraft that flies over Garibaldi for flight-seeing purposes pay a fee that goes directly the park for maintenance. They sure could use more rangers up there and perhaps these aircraft sightseers could fund it.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 02:35 AM
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Thanks for opening the topic, mad owl woman. I notice some choose to add their comments to the original topic despite adding to the topic diversion.
https://www.clubtread.com/sforum/topi...TOPIC_ID=63274

I think it's great someone would care so much about their aging parent to provide such an adventure. I've done similar things for my parents. Such as taking my mother camping on the beach at Port Renfrew, or driving my dad up to walk on the Kettle Valley Railway. Neither of those has the audio or visual impact of aircraft circling popular mountains.

Quote:
quote:Without tourism, such as flights over garibaldi lake, there would be much less awareness about the beautiful areas of BC, and less desire from voters to protect them which would result in the parks budget getting completely cut, oil companies blazing paths unopposed through parks, and the continued degradation of beautiful BC. Flights to view the beautiful places in BC are great to raise awareness and get people pumped about protecting the environment and the province. I doubt the 250 people camping down by the lake even heard the plane over the rest of the noise.
This same logic is used to defend capturing wild whales for performance displays. In fact, I know of no studies that have shown such exploitation of a natural resource has the effect of promoting conservation. There's plenty of speculation, of course. My opinion is that promotion of, say, aircraft access to wild places begets more exploitation of those places, not less. The corollary is that wilderness "causes" degradation of wilderness. Which sounds like nonsense.

I don't think tourist flights over mountains such as the Black Tusk are reasonably necessary, and I said so. Other than the environmental aspect, I'd be quite happy for such aircraft tourism to confine itself to Whistler and Blackcomb Mountains. Which obviously are not pristine and the folks going there don't expect a wilderness surrounding.

I've been bothered by aircraft tourist flights buzzing nice places since I first ran into this on a bicycle trip in the Bahamas in 1972. It just keeps getting worse around here, from Vargas Island to Spruce Lake. At least nowadays there are competent music devices to shut out the noise.

Quote:
quote:Maybe you haven't heard, but Garibaldi Lake is front country.
Or to show more manners, all that was needed: "I believe Garibaldi Lake is front country".

Good point. So I looked up the Garibald Provincial Park Master Plan.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/pla...ribaldi_mp.pdf

I thought "front country" was a term used by Parks Canada. The Plan says Garibaldi Park has 4 zones. The Development Zone includes the Rubble Creek and Diamond Head roads and parking lots. The Black Tusk, meadows etc are in the Special Features Subzone.

"Aircraft access will be managed by restricting landing and by volunteer overflight guidelines."

"General aviation, landings and sightseeing by aircraft will be managed for minimum impact on park visitors and wildlife through an aviation management plan.
The plan will provide guidance on minimum altitude of flights and will restrict landings."

At a different level, Transport Canada regulations require aircraft in flight to stay 300 metres away from populated areas. A mountain with people clearly visible on it is a "populated area". Though many aircraft observe that regulation, I've witnessed enough violations of it, and seen enough videos shot from aircraft to know that violations are common. Maybe there should be a requirement that private aircraft within 10km of populated areas have mufflers.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 02:44 AM
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Totally agree with you guys. In general I find noise one of most underrated types of pollution. Here in the City it's ridiculous - every 2 or 3 minutes, and flying very low it's like living in middle of yvr. But Garibaldi is worse, you go to nature to escape all the hustle and bustle. Even last week at Mountain Lake, every hour or so something would fly over - very loud and annoying.

Not sure it can be helped though. It is just one of side aspects of population growth you feel everywhere; as such it can only get worse.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 03:38 AM
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Soon, surface to air missiles coming to MEC near you.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 11:09 AM
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The first time I was up The Black Tusk, 30 odd years ago, I was sitting there dangling my feet over the ledge basking in the sunshine when a small plane flew by below.

I thought that was pretty cool.

These days, I don't even give them a glance. I might give them the finger, not out of anger but from happiness.

They don't bother me much, yet, but could.


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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 12:13 PM
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I'm pretty sure nothing in the Sea-to-Sky corridor really counts as wilderness anymore.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 12:20 PM
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Garibaldi Lake had a float plane operation through the 50s.
When Spilsbury got helicopters he used to land tourists on top of the Table for picnics.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
quote:One time QCA received a charter for Garibaldi Park. Three young hikers wanted to be taken into Garibaldi Lake with their packs and supplies. The weather report was marginal but Johnny Hatch decided he would try making the flight himself. All went well until he turned out of the valley and headed up toward the end of the lake. The end of the valley is blocked by an eight-hundred-foot-high lava 'dyke' that forms the lake, and he had to fly up over the barrier to land on the water.

Just as Johnny was approaching the barrier, a violent downdraft of cold glacial air hit the aircraft and caused it to lose several hundred feet of altitude. Since it was impossible to clear the barrier, Johnny took the only course left to him. He chopped the throttle, shut off the ignition, and aimed straight for two medium-sized, springy-looking fir trees. The aircraft, now at stall speed, struck the trees forty-five feet above ground, pushed them over to a forty-five degree angle, then slid down the trunks like an elevator and made a reasonably soft landing.

Quite a few things happened to the aircraft during the process. Both wings sheared off. The pontoons doubled back under the fuselage like pretzels and the engine came off its mount. Gasoline was everywhere. When the broken branches and glass and bits of aircraft stopped falling, Johnny looked around to see how his passengers made out. Before he could think what to say, one of them turned from the window and exclaimed, "Oh, isn't this absolutely bee-yootiful!" None of them had ever been in an aircraft before and they had nothing with which to compare this uncommon performance. They seemed to assume that this was just the normal way you landed your floatplane on a mountain.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dru

Quote:
quote:One time QCA received a charter for Garibaldi Park. Three young hikers wanted to be taken into Garibaldi Lake with their packs and supplies. The weather report was marginal but Johnny Hatch decided he would try making the flight himself. All went well until he turned out of the valley and headed up toward the end of the lake. The end of the valley is blocked by an eight-hundred-foot-high lava 'dyke' that forms the lake, and he had to fly up over the barrier to land on the water.

Just as Johnny was approaching the barrier, a violent downdraft of cold glacial air hit the aircraft and caused it to lose several hundred feet of altitude. Since it was impossible to clear the barrier, Johnny took the only course left to him. He chopped the throttle, shut off the ignition, and aimed straight for two medium-sized, springy-looking fir trees. The aircraft, now at stall speed, struck the trees forty-five feet above ground, pushed them over to a forty-five degree angle, then slid down the trunks like an elevator and made a reasonably soft landing.

Quite a few things happened to the aircraft during the process. Both wings sheared off. The pontoons doubled back under the fuselage like pretzels and the engine came off its mount. Gasoline was everywhere. When the broken branches and glass and bits of aircraft stopped falling, Johnny looked around to see how his passengers made out. Before he could think what to say, one of them turned from the window and exclaimed, "Oh, isn't this absolutely bee-yootiful!" None of them had ever been in an aircraft before and they had nothing with which to compare this uncommon performance. They seemed to assume that this was just the normal way you landed your floatplane on a mountain.
hahahaha that's awesome!
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by tu

The first time I was up The Black Tusk, 30 odd years ago, I was sitting there dangling my feet over the ledge basking in the sunshine when a small plane flew by below.

I thought that was pretty cool.

These days, I don't even give them a glance. I might give them the finger, not out of anger but from happiness.

They don't bother me much, yet, but could.


I have to agree, planes don`t bother me as much as people talking loud or yelling in the mountains, and yea I hear the excuse they want to give the bears warning, but really?
That, I find more annoying then any planes. MEC should sell duck tape.
Speaking of planes, once years back I reached the summit of Golden Ears, a small Cessna came flying by, it came very close to me on the peak and it banked steeply one wing to sky the other to ground, I was able to see a big smile on the pilots face as he came by, that I thought was cool.
[8D]
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 03:38 PM
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I love the sound of aircraft.
I love seeing aircraft in flight while out in the backcountry.

Loud talking people annoy the crap out of me. I came up with a new term while in Strathcona the other week.. "Use your backcountry voice."
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dru

Quote:
quote:One time QCA received a charter for Garibaldi Park. Three young hikers wanted to be taken into Garibaldi Lake with their packs and supplies. The weather report was marginal but Johnny Hatch decided he would try making the flight himself. All went well until he turned out of the valley and headed up toward the end of the lake. The end of the valley is blocked by an eight-hundred-foot-high lava 'dyke' that forms the lake, and he had to fly up over the barrier to land on the water.

Just as Johnny was approaching the barrier, a violent downdraft of cold glacial air hit the aircraft and caused it to lose several hundred feet of altitude. Since it was impossible to clear the barrier, Johnny took the only course left to him. He chopped the throttle, shut off the ignition, and aimed straight for two medium-sized, springy-looking fir trees. The aircraft, now at stall speed, struck the trees forty-five feet above ground, pushed them over to a forty-five degree angle, then slid down the trunks like an elevator and made a reasonably soft landing.

Quite a few things happened to the aircraft during the process. Both wings sheared off. The pontoons doubled back under the fuselage like pretzels and the engine came off its mount. Gasoline was everywhere. When the broken branches and glass and bits of aircraft stopped falling, Johnny looked around to see how his passengers made out. Before he could think what to say, one of them turned from the window and exclaimed, "Oh, isn't this absolutely bee-yootiful!" None of them had ever been in an aircraft before and they had nothing with which to compare this uncommon performance. They seemed to assume that this was just the normal way you landed your floatplane on a mountain.
Where did you dig this up? I can't stop laughing about the last few lines.

I don't mind planes flying over parks like Garibaldi, it keeps them away from the real back country.
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 04:35 PM
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It's a quote from "The Accidental Airline"
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post #15 of (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 06:10 PM
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fighter jets were doing laps over the park yesterday. was quite the show.
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