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post #106 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 12:03 AM
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quote:Originally posted by splitboarder

I'm looking forward to some "out-of-bounding" tomorrow. But i'm armed with knowledge of the area and terrain, a map and ability to use it, good sense with lots of alternate plans available, conservative avy decisioning, avalanche training and practice, competent partners, leaving my plan with someone i can trust, 10 essentials, the proper equipment (avy gear, splitboard, with skins and poles, extra layers, first aid kits), etc. etc. etc.

And guess what I do this kind of thing often (gasp!) and so do many I know, and I can honestly say none of us have ever required SAR's services or been in any truly bad situations. We know the risks, keep it conservative and have so far managed a perfect safety record with 100's of incredible days of backcountry sliding enjoyment in the mountains of BC and abroad.

Though I do agree that many "out-of-bounders" are woefully ill-prepared with little knowledge of what they're getting into and certainly no idea what they don't know, making bold and poor decisions. It is a problem, education is key, but let's not paint such broad strokes of all "out-of-bound" skiers and boarders in our mountains.
DONT DO IT PLEASE!!!
OK fine, go ahead, and post a T/R with pics, CT has gotten so bland lately.
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post #107 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 02:24 AM
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quote:Originally posted by sgRant
I appreciate you setting the record straight and broadening my perspective on the matter. I thought the collective agreement I worked under had provision for covering search&rescue, but I no longer have a copy to check.
For sure, some government workers definitely get a per diem rate for SAR. I don't know whether it is the same as they would get paid at work, but when I was in Nelson SAR, there were definitely folks getting paid for going out on calls during work time.
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post #108 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 03:32 AM
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Wow... I learned so much here, not about the Snowboarder found alive.
Thanks!



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post #109 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 04:23 PM
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quote:Originally posted by sandy

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sgRant
I appreciate you setting the record straight and broadening my perspective on the matter. I thought the collective agreement I worked under had provision for covering search&rescue, but I no longer have a copy to check.
For sure, some government workers definitely get a per diem rate for SAR. I don't know whether it is the same as they would get paid at work, but when I was in Nelson SAR, there were definitely folks getting paid for going out on calls during work time.
I'm curious what your position was and who these government workers are who got per diems. I've been in SAR for about 8 years and have never seen anyone get a per diem as a SAR volunteer
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post #110 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 04:50 PM
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quote:Originally posted by Flowing-Brook

wow, this conversation has gone ballistic. Relax people, he didn't commit a crime or hurt you. He got lost in the mountains, it could happen to you too. Exercise a little compassion...please.
I hate the argument that we shouldn't criticize another's actions because it could happen to us too. That's really not always the case. Frequently not.
When I read about someone who just slipped at the wrong moment, I think 'wow, that could happen to anyone'. when I read about someone who chose to go backcountry skiing (that's what it's called once you cross the rope) in dangerous conditions with no backcountry equipment or knowledge, no, I don't think 'that could happen to me'. In fact, that couldn't happen to me. These sorts of things aren't random acts that strike out of the sky. This man's issue was completely his fault. He didn't have the knowledge or skills to be where he was. He didn't have the equipment to be doing what he was doing. That is not a random chance. That is a distinct failure to take appropriate care.
When I go backcountry skiing, I check the conditions, carry appropriate gear, and know where I'm going (and have a map and compass with me to ensure I go where I'm planning to go).
While I haven't personally happened to go slackcountry outside a resort, if I did, I would do so with full preparation for backcountry skiing.
I have also never gotten lost. And the chances are extremely low that I ever will. I research an area before I go. I have solid navigation skills. I carry a map and compass everywhere I go, and I check where I am and how to get back to where I came from regularly. If I don't feel safe, I turn around. These are all things smart travellers do to avoid being in this man's predicament.

Some SAR callouts happen for things that could happen to anyone. This isn't one of them. This was entirely preventable, and it's simply not true that I (or many other prepared backcountry users) could just suddenly find myself in the same position.
One might have compassion as a human, but that doesn't require one to ignore the fact that it was entirely his own poor choices that put him where he was.
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post #111 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 09:47 PM
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Really glad he was found safe.
As for backcountry out of bounds travel even for those fully aware and prepared. How wise is it to venture out into backcountry alone? Should not one travel with someone, or are there exceptions?
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post #112 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 10:29 PM
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quote:Originally posted by pilgrimsinthisland

Really glad he was found safe.
As for backcountry out of bounds travel even for those fully aware and prepared. How wise is it to venture out into backcountry alone? Should not one travel with someone, or are there exceptions?
It is definitely consider safer to travel with others. But where the level of 'unsafe' is drawn depends on the person. If you're interested, this board has had many discussions on solo travel that you can find if you search.
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post #113 of (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Kootenay Kid
For sure, some government workers definitely get a per diem rate for SAR. I don't know whether it is the same as they would get paid at work, but when I was in Nelson SAR, there were definitely folks getting paid for going out on calls during work time.
I'm curious what your position was and who these government workers are who got per diems. I've been in SAR for about 8 years and have never seen anyone get a per diem as a SAR volunteer
[/quote]

You know, we met once on a course a few years ago in Rossland. In any case, without going into personal specifics, these are people working for the regional government. They got paid a per diem by their organization when they were on call-outs during work hours. I know other government companies in the area also did this. Weren't my business to inquire into how much the per diem was. But, that never seems to stop people poking their nose in.

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post #114 of (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Rachelo


While I haven't personally happened to go slackcountry...
I love that term! I'm going to start using it.
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post #115 of (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Flowing-Brook

wow, this conversation has gone ballistic. Relax people, he didn't commit a crime or hurt you. He got lost in the mountains, it could happen to you too. Exercise a little compassion...please.
Trying to determine if someone did something stupid, and to what degree they should be punished for that is certain to stir up a range of opinions on an online forum.

Last summer I stumbled on a simple trail near the campsite on Salt Spring Island and tumbled head-first onto some rocks. Had the results been only a little more serious, I would have needed a rescue. It can happen very unexpectedly even in seemingly innocent circumstances even if you're not doing anything silly.
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post #116 of (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 06:53 PM
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Remember People.

He went out of Bounds, UNPREPARED, past signs warning people like him to not go there, and still he did.

He should have turned back sooner, but didn't cause he's a clueless idiot.

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post #117 of (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 07:02 PM
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Sandy,
after I posted my last comment I meant to come back and correct myself. I apologize if I came across harsh but I differentiate between paid government employees who would receive their salary regardless if there was a task or not, and SAR volunteers. I will also correct myself by saying that yes there are per diems to cover things like meals and mileage but there is NO pay. I feel quite strongly about the lack of knowledge the general public has about who responds to their emergencies. More and more is being demanded of volunteer or paid on call fire fighters, way underpaid paramedics, and SAR volunteers.
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post #118 of (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by shinsplints

Remember People.

He went out of Bounds, UNPREPARED, past signs warning people like him to not go there, and still he did.

He should have turned back sooner, but didn't cause he's a clueless idiot.

I dont really know, but my take is, once you drop down some seemingly fun spots, you cannot get back up, especially in fresh storm snow. After dark, navigating here is difficult at best. Loosing elevation is going to make things more difficult. If you are unfamiliar with this terrain and have less than basic equipment/ experience, you are likley to be stuck, be lost for days, face a slow death or hope SAR can get you out. Stay within your general last known area and hope for the best. Self evacuation is unlikely.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong .
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post #119 of (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sgRant

Last summer I stumbled on a simple trail near the campsite on Salt Spring Island and tumbled head-first onto some rocks. Had the results been only a little more serious, I would have needed a rescue. It can happen very unexpectedly even in seemingly innocent circumstances even if you're not doing anything silly.
Those of us who feel this guy was the dumb cause of his own fate don't disagree with your possibility.
The point is that there is a difference from random problems that happen out of nowhere and could happen to anyone doing that sport, and problems that only come from a complete failure to take appropriate care/equipment/training/knowledge/whatever. Anyone might need SAR, but that doesn't mean that anyone could suddenly end up lost with no equipment. Some SAR callouts are from chance, some are from choices. Many are a combination of both.
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post #120 of (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 02:14 AM
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To be honest with you, what kinda got me was hearing the story from the snowboarder from the very beginning. When he starts off saying he got word his friend died, then it sounded like he stormed off on a hike not in the right set of mind.



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