Meager Hotsprings- No Easy Access! - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #16 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Stoked

Frank, couldn't road builders just trench a new channel for Meager Creek down the centre of the debris flow? Then run the road up the east side?
No. First, Meager Creek is considered a viable anadromous fish creek, so any major channel works would most likely not be allowed; we had enough trouble just getting approvals to rip-rap a short section of the old road.

Second is that the creek is incredibly active, so it wouldn't be possible to establish a stable channel and road location on the Meager floodplain.

Third, there is still the likelihood of more big landslides in the area.
FrankB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by path finder

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Stoked

Frank, couldn't road builders just trench a new channel for Meager Creek down the centre of the debris flow? Then run the road up the east side?
That would likely work ... until the next debris flow event takes place. I think the road, if it's replaced, needs to cut into the east side bank up higher and out of reach of these massive slides that originate from the Meager group.
Bingo. That's what we're looking into.
FrankB is offline  
post #18 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by alexcanuck

I think the slide was likely the last straw for official public access to Meager. It's only by pure luck that nobody was killed, a few hours earlier or later and people would have been in the path, and I've seen the way the slide almost miraculously wrapped around the campsite but spared it.
A road will likely be built, but gated, closed to the public and possibly manned during busy times. Maybe a drawbridge, lowered and manned only during active hauling? That would be a clever and effective solution. (From the viewpoint of the ministry of forests.)
No! This is the major untold story about Meager and the 2010 landslide. A few years ago, Pierre Friele and myself completed a major hazards study of the Meager Creek valley for the Squamish Forest Service, and provided some very specific recommendations for managing the hazard. Most notable was a recommendation to close the valley during hot spells when there was an increased risk of glacial meltwater and high pore water pressures.

The Forest Service, much to their credit, had conscientiously applied these measures for years, and the closure was in effect when the big landslide occurred.

If those closures had not been in effect, I estimate that dozens of people might have been in the valley and could have been killed by the landslide.
FrankB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Hiker Boy

The trouble with restricting public access is that it allows for the government to exploit the area unopposed. Next thing you know is there is more extensive logging up the Elaho and geothermal power coming to the Meager area.
What's wrong with geothermal power?? It is renewable, carbon-free, base load energy; doesn't get much better!

I worked on the original project, and am convinced that there is a viable resource in the Meager area that we should be developing!
FrankB is offline  
post #20 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Scaling New Heights
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Whistler, BC, Canada.
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Steventy

More importantly though, I just recently learned of the new section of trail that the VOC is building from the north.
Ahh, Not feasible was the wrong choice of words. I didn't intend to mis-quote you on that.
Good News Bear is offline  
post #21 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:12 PM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vancouver, , .
Posts: 2,674
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FrankB

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Hiker Boy

The trouble with restricting public access is that it allows for the government to exploit the area unopposed. Next thing you know is there is more extensive logging up the Elaho and geothermal power coming to the Meager area.
What's wrong with geothermal power?? It is renewable, carbon-free, base load energy; doesn't get much better!

I worked on the original project, and am convinced that there is a viable resource in the Meager area that we should be developing!
And the government is the people. Not some all-powerful organization that operates independently of the public.
sgRant is offline  
post #22 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:23 PM
Off the Beaten Path
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast, BC, Canada.
Posts: 883
Default

Excellent info guys! Already imagining some exciting trips next year that way....
trailrunner is offline  
post #23 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here, , Canada.
Posts: 4,675
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sgRant



And the government is the people. Not some all-powerful organization that operates independently of the public.
In theory maybe so but a little naive in reality IMHO. The government is made up of a bunch of self-serving people, both elected politicians and bureaucrats. They basically do whatever they want and work for their own benefit quite happily independent until they are exposed through public scrutiny.

FrankB, I'm not against geothermal if it would have no impact on the natural hot springs in that area. We have so very few public backcountry hot springs, I'd like to preserve them. In most cases I'd be pragmatic and side with cheap and easy energy but this is just a personal preference for me....I'm a backcountry hot spring soaking enthusiast.
Hiker Boy is offline  
post #24 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Hiker Boy

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sgRant



And the government is the people. Not some all-powerful organization that operates independently of the public.
In theory maybe so but a little naive in reality IMHO. The government is made up of a bunch of self-serving people, both elected politicians and bureaucrats. They basically do whatever they want and work for their own benefit quite happily independent until they are exposed through public scrutiny.

FrankB, I'm not against geothermal if it would have no impact on the natural hot springs in that area. We have so very few public backcountry hot springs, I'd like to preserve them. In most cases I'd be pragmatic and side with cheap and easy energy but this is just a personal preference for me....I'm a backcountry hot spring soaking enthusiast.
No, that almost certainly wouldn't be a concern- neither of the two prime areas for geothermal exploration are anywhere near the two known hot springs (Meager and Pebble), and, geologically, it is most unlikely that geothermal development would affect either hotspring since the source areas where temperatures are hot enough are 2-3 thousand metres down.

I think far and away the area of greatest geothermal potential is the Falls Creek valley, which is the big bowl west of Pebble Creek Hotsprings and Keyhole Falls. There are two active geothermal exploration leases in that area- but there are no plans yet for any serious exploration, let alone development.
FrankB is offline  
post #25 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bensp

Hi Frank et al,

I am not sure if you know but the VOC has submitted an application to build a trail to our Harrison Hut. At present all that is there is a rough route part of the way there. Details can be found here http://www.ubc-voc.com/wiki/Harrison_Hut_route
This trail may eventually become obsolete if a new road is built into the Meager Creek valley- but that is probably at least 2-3 years away. The same thing happened with the first trail I ever helped build- which was up Brohm Ridge. We busted our guts over one Fall season building the trail- and then the next summer, a new logging road basically made it all obsolete.

Again, my biggest concern is that any road up the south side of the Lillooet River, and then up the lower southeast side of Meager Creek will have very serious avalanche hazard, which will limit its season of use.
FrankB is offline  
post #26 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 05:21 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 1,193
Default

IMHO, the very best thing that could happen to Meager hotsprings would be that public road access remains closed to all, and the trail as proposed by the VOC comes to fruition. The hike is long enough to discourage the drunken louts, yet still feasible for an overnighter by experienced hikers.
alexcanuck is offline  
post #27 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by alexcanuck

IMHO, the very best thing that could happen to Meager hotsprings would be that public road access remains closed to all, and the trail as proposed by the VOC comes to fruition. The hike is long enough to discourage the drunken louts, yet still feasible for an overnighter by experienced hikers.
There is definitely something to be said for this approach.

Trouble is, snowmobilers can still access the Harrison Hut from the Pemberton Icecap, so the beer comes in anyway- and is chilled yet!

BTW, Julian Harrison was a good friend of mine in the VOC days- one of those super-enthusiastic and nice guys who always had a smile on his face!
FrankB is offline  
post #28 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vancouver, , .
Posts: 2,674
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FrankB

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by alexcanuck

IMHO, the very best thing that could happen to Meager hotsprings would be that public road access remains closed to all, and the trail as proposed by the VOC comes to fruition. The hike is long enough to discourage the drunken louts, yet still feasible for an overnighter by experienced hikers.
There is definitely something to be said for this approach.

Trouble is, snowmobilers can still access the Harrison Hut from the Pemberton Icecap, so the beer comes in anyway- and is chilled yet!

Quote:
quote:This trail may eventually become obsolete if a new road is built into the Meager Creek valley- but that is probably at least 2-3 years away.
And it would also become a problem if the road that climbs to the new trailhead isn't maintained. It's quite apparent the road is not a durable construction. It has problems with teetering boulders, prism slippage(?) and washouts. None of this is enough reason to not build the route, though.

Even if a new road bypassed the first half of the VOC's new trail route, the second half would still be used to get to the hut.

Quote:
quote:BTW, Julian Harrison was a good friend of mine in the VOC days- one of those super-enthusiastic and nice guys who always had a smile on his face!
I also knew Julian. A very smart fellow, and a doctor. He died in an avalanche on Mt. Shasta, I believe. If memory serves me correctly, he and two companions were digging a snow cave high on the mountain to get out of a storm, and their activity triggered an avalanche. The two outside were killed while the person inside the cave survived.
sgRant is offline  
post #29 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 10:06 PM
Summit Master
 
pmicheals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada.
Posts: 2,674
Default

Frank just off topic for a moment but still on the Geothermal topic, whatever happened to the staked geothermal claims on the west side of Cayley. They were on the mineral claims maps during the 80's 90's. Supposedly same company that was doing the exploration in the Meager area.

Yeah that was a lot of rain to be coming down on some pretty dry and hard slopes so hopefully everyone is ok out there this weekend.
pmicheals is offline  
post #30 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: , , Canada.
Posts: 322
Default

As far as I know, the geothermal leases on Mt. Cayley lapsed, and have not yet been offered again to Companies by the Government.

The way it works is that a Company can propose to the Government that a given area be offered in a call for bids for a geothermal lease in a given area. There is then a public competition for that ground, and the entity that offers the most money for that area wins and then has the exclusive rights for 7 or 8 years to explore the ground.

As I recall, there are currently five active geothermal leases in the Province- one in the Knight Inlet area, which is of questionable value because it is too far from any interconnection point, and the potential resource is in too rugged an area to explore. Another is in the Kinbasket Lake area- but it is of questionable value (the geochemistry suggests it isn't hot enough, it doesn't appear to be big enough, and it is in the middle of a B.C. Hydro reservoir).

Another two are in the Pebble Creek hotsprings area of Mt. Meager- one covers peripheral ground to the vent deposits high up in the mountains and would be extremely difficult and expensive to evaluate, but the second, lower elevation lease could really be a winner. There is also an older lease a little to the south of Pebble Creek hotsprings that is due to expire in a couple of years.

There was another lease proposed for the Sloquet Hotsprings area, but I'm not sure whether it has been offered for lease.

Finally, there is a geothermal lease that covers the southwest part of the Meager complex- this is where B.C. Hydro and then various private entities, including the last one, Western Geopower, explored but have so far not found a viable resource. In my estimation, this area also still has good potential- if the goat and grizzly bear issues can be resolved.

Anyway, this was all written from memory- but there are various B.C. Government WEB sites that go into this in more detail, and show where the active leases are.
FrankB is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1