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post #16 of (permalink) Old 09-07-2012, 10:10 PM
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On a side note, it somewhat amazes me how many people who make great effort to reach certain areas in the mountains will call a patch of seasonal snow a glacier.

Harry if you don't already own it, I recommend going out and buying Freedom of the Hills. It is a great base of knowledge for all things mountain related. I would also recommend doing some other research - even MEC has online info on how to choose gear and what the different types or harnesses and ropes and boots are good for.
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 09-10-2012, 10:02 PM
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Visited the Athabasca Glacier area a few weeks ago- here's a sign warning people to stay off the ice.



Trouble is, when you fall into a crevasse, you get squeezed and slip in a little deeper as you breathe out. Then, as your warm body cools down and you become hypothermic, your clothes freeze to the sides of the crevasse and rescuers have to use blow torches or ice picks to get you out.

This explains why most people that fall into crevasses don't survive- including two of my very experienced climbing friends over the years.
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 08:40 AM
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God we all started somewhere didn't we? I'm not as big an expert as the wankers making fun, but for what it's worth, harry, I use a 60m, 9.8mm, dynamic rope. Some would say it's overkill, but I like the option of having extra rope on each end.

But do study up, and maybe save further questions for real life instructors, not internet experts. MEC isn't the only place that sells ropes, too.
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 09:15 AM
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i sure wish i could've known all there is to know,the second i came out of the womb.



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post #20 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 09:18 AM
tu
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by nmcan84

i sure wish i could've known all there is to know,the second i came out of the womb.
Then the first words out of your mouth would have been "Oh my G*d! WHAT THE H*LL IS THAT!!!!"
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by tu

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by nmcan84

i sure wish i could've known all there is to know,the second i came out of the womb.
Then the first words out of your mouth would have been "Oh my G*d! WHAT THE H*LL IS THAT!!!!"
Hahaha! I needed a good laugh this morning and that did it; thanks, tu

(And since I have absolutely nothing useful to contribute to this thread, I'll shut up now [:I])
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by harry99

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dru

There's no such thing as a glacier scrambling rope. When you are on a glacier and roped up, you are climbing.
Dru you must be thedouche that knows everything
I think, regardless of tone and any prior obnoxious comments directed your way, here he's clarifying your question and usage of the word 'scrambling', so helping you out.
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 02:15 PM
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I agree tu. I don't see why it's considered so nasty to point out that the two terms together are not really in the standard climbing lexicon.

I will also reiterate my earlier thought and note that most beginner climbers don't need as much gear as perhaps they think. On a rope team of three, I assume at least one, if not two, of the individuals will be quite experienced. Experienced folks tend to already own a rope (or a few) and other group gear they'd be willing to share.

Okay, I appreciate if someone shows up with a rope, especially one that's about to be trod on by crampons, but seriously, offering to buy dinner 'cause we used my rope works well too.

The most versatile rope you can buy is a 60 or 70M single, 10mm-ish dry treated rope.
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post #24 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 02:50 PM
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Glacier scrambling is a perfect term to describe what most people are probably doing when they are "mountaineering" - hike across or up a glacier, do a little scrambling, get to a summit. Seems pretty descriptive to me.

Why do people keep recommending Freedom of the Hills when there are a dozen better books out there?

Harry99, you do remind me of Grachman - which isn't a bad thing as he was a funny dude.

In any case, you could get away with a lighter rope than a fat heavy 10mm single dry rope if you are just using it for glacier travel and even a little bit of fourth to low 5th type scrambling. A half rope will work fine for that. If you are neurotic, you can double the rope to lead any fourth/low 5th pitches, if not, climb on it singly. I've always found the dry treatment wears off so quickly that I don't bother spending the extra bucks for dry ropes just for glacier travel anymore. A standard 60 m will give you ample length for glaciers down here, Alaskan sized glaciers might require longer ropes, but anywhere in the Cascades, Coast, Columbias, Rockies, you'll be fine with 60 m and three people. Add a pulley or two to your glacier kit as they do reduce friction should you need to haul someone out of a crevasse. Best to avoid that if possible - carry an avalanche probe and you can get much better gauge of snow bridges, snow depth, etc. than with a standard ice axe.

Post your adventures....

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post #25 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 03:07 PM
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Harry you should look at like this, you ask some great questions. There is however a cost associated with everything. The cost of free advice is that comes in a truck load of bullshit, you have to pick out the golden nuggets. Among the sarcasm and bullshit is some great advice. Which I would like to thank you all for. Keep up the good work Harry.
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sandy


Why do people keep recommending Freedom of the Hills when there are a dozen better books out there?

Maybe you could, I dunno, name one or two of those books, you know, reccomend them? Maybe more productive than bashing other folks perfectly valid recommendations, amirite?
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post #27 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sandy

Glacier scrambling is a perfect term to describe what most people are probably doing when they are "mountaineering" - hike across or up a glacier, do a little scrambling, get to a summit. Seems pretty descriptive to me.
thats exactly what I plan to do, nothing vertical(or close to vertical) rock or ice
aha dru someone agrees with me that glacier scrambling is a good term
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post #28 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 04:09 PM
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Alpine Climbing: Techniques to Take You Higher
Climbing Self Rescue
Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue
Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skills
Rock Climbing: A Comprehensive Guide

All available from The Mountaineers :http://www.mountaineersbooks.org/
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 05:02 PM
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I agree with most of what Sandy wrote. Don't bother hauling a 10 mm rope up there; go with 9 mm or something close to that. That'll get you up most regular "mountaineering" routes. The "everdry" treatment is great for a while, but after that the rope will be "ever-wet". So don't bother paying a bunch extra for the dry variety (unless you can find it on sale).

Treat the rope with care. Dry, dark storage, no organic fumes around (gasoline, oil, paint thinner, etc.). Those will rot your rope and you won't be able to tell it by looking at it. Use it only for climbing - no towing cars, tying stuff onto cartop carriers, and the like. Pulleys, a few extra carabiners, slings are useful. Crampons are very useful, but it's always a trade-off between wearing them on soft, snow-covered glaciers, where they can be a pain but really handy if you have to get out of a hole, and not wearing them, which can be more convenient (but you might really wish you had them if things go wrong). Each situation is different.

A general-purpose mountaineering ice-axe is essential. Get one with as long a handle as you can for snow and glacier use. No need for ice tools unless you are into ice climbing.

Dress warmly: if you are roping up it means there's a possibility of ending up in a crevasse, and you'll be glad you're wearing that extra stuff. Keep mitts or whatever you are using handy. It's cold in those slots. The best way to stay out of crevasses is with good routefinding and a good eye, but that takes time to learn.

Practice your glacier travel technique on easy snow, or even a big parking lot. Practice whatever rescue system you are using so that you can do it when you really have to. Learn by doing. Take a course.

Contrary to Sandy, I still think Freedom of the Hills is pretty good. Yes, there are better books for rock climbing, ice climbing. But it's a good general text. Lots of good advice in there, even if I don't agree with everything.

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post #30 of (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sandy

Alpine Climbing: Techniques to Take You Higher
Climbing Self Rescue
Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue
Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skills
Rock Climbing: A Comprehensive Guide

All available from The Mountaineers :http://www.mountaineersbooks.org/
I have several of the books that you listed as well as Freedom. While the five you give are all good books, they can all be replaced by Freedom of the Hills which is a much more exhaustive and encompassing reference book. Each of those Mountaineers books are essentially chapters in Freedom. Why buy half a dozen books when one will do? This guy appears to be on a budget too so why multiply 20 or 30 bucks by 5 when Freedom is like $35? And those books all list Freedom in their bibliographies...

As for the rope: A half rope (8mm or so) is usually a sensible choice for glacier stuff as it is lighter weight, a plus when you are weighted down with all the other cold weather gear you will probably need on your trips. However I wouldn't recommend a half for you starting out since they are too limiting. All you can do with a half is touring or other glacier travel unless you pair them up for more vertical pursuits, but then you are doubling your cost. If you are anything like me (or most of the rest of the climbing community) you might branch out into some rock and then would need a thicker rope. A friend has this rope and I have heard good things http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Climbi...m-dry-rope.jsp. It is dry-treated and a 60m length is just under $200, which is what you will probably spend on a rope. Nothing but good reviews and it's a 9.9mm. There is also a 10.2mm version which might be a better choice. Whichever rope you pick, I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the weight of the rope, rather its suitability. I know plenty of people who obsess over ounces of gear but then overpack on clothes and food or insist on carrying a couple litres of water when one or less will suffice.
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