I seem to be having a bit of a dispute with someone about where the Larson Trail goes. Earlier this summer I decided it was time expand my knowledge of Grouse beyond the Grind and New BCMC. I saw a post by NS (North Explorer??) that said he another person had spent some time in June or July putting up new trail markers on the Larson and BCMC. I used those markers a week or so later and easily found the Larson Trail. It gave the confidence to go beyond my previous comfort level of exploring. At the point where it crosses the old BCMC, there was a good marker, pointing up, that said "Larson to Skyride". I followed the well marked trail and enjoyed it. It's a bit more rugged and takes longer, which is what I was looking for. 2 weeks later I noticed that the marker had been bent up so it could not be seen, so I bent it down again. 2 weeks later I found it had been ripped off and put about 50 ft east along the old BCMC. I put it back where it was originally posted. Today I again found it removed and put down the old BCMC. It is now back on the right trail but for how long? Is it someone on this board that keeps moving it? Is there a reason for this? Does someone think that the orginal posting was wrong and corrected it? Is someone trying to keep people off the trail by directing them down the old BCMC? According to the maps that were posted to an older query of mine, it certainly was posted in the right place.

I have enjoyed exploring the various Grouse trails this summer and think it is important that trail markers be left where they were put so that other hikers don't get lost. I don't understand other hikers that pull down markers or change them so they are misleading. It is a safety thing to me.

On another note and for your info, I ran into Tony Simic the other day and he tells me it is him that has used the black felt pen to mark rocks on the MacKay Creek and Simic trail with the message "no bikes,no runners,no dogs". I am not sure I agree this marking, and I post this for your info if you wondered where it came from.

Alfun47

Interesting. Although I hugely respect Mr.Simic, I don't think it is necessary to write the little notes. I agree that bikes aren't appropriate on the Grouse trails (Mt Fromme is so much better and close by). Running up is fine (if you can), but running down on the McKay Creek trail would erode the trail pretty quickly, so I agree on this point too.

But, I think the "no dogs" comment is contentious. Perhaps it should read "no poorly trained misbehaved dogs".

As for the markers, I don't know who would be moving them. I'm trying to remember that marker. Is it one of those really old metal stamped kind?

The marker I am talking about is new, probably put there by NS Explorer, I think, who posted earlier this year that they had put up new markers. I also erred, it was moved west on BCMC not east.

Alfun47, thanks for the post. It's been fun hiking with you this summer and exploring the grouse trails.
I think you are being kind to Tony on his markings, in my mind they have altered the trail in a negative way. His original markings on rocks of "Simic's Trail 2004" were ok, a tribute to a lot of hard work. However, these new ones are all over the place including one on a large part of a fallen tree (I don't think I even showed you that one, I was somewhat dismayed at the time). However, I don't remember the dog reference, thought all the signs said, "no bikers, no runners".
As for the moved sign, as we discussed, I'm not sure who would move it to the Old BCMC route. When we did get up Larsen a bit, there was a sign that said "no trespassing" etc. You actually had to look backwards to see it. Not sure who would own the property in that area.

As alfun47 stated, the sign used to be straight uphill from the intersection of the Larsen and Old BCMC and in plain view. The last 2 times we were there it's been moved to a tree with another orange marker on it, a few metres west on the Old BCMC indicating that it's Larsen, which we don't believe it is.
The Larsen is a nice change to the usual climbs up there, shame folks have to put up with moved signs.

May help to put in NS Explorer's map again.



Regards

Posthaste

There is a lot of broken glass on the upper section of the McKay Creek Trail. Not a good place for dogs.

I have also noticed that many markers have been moved or removed. It's pretty frustrating especially when I was in there a couple weeks back on a rescue from an area that I marked well last year and now the markers are gone...