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woodland.telegraph 01-07-2018 08:55 PM

First Nations Mountain Names
 
As I have been reading Bruce Fairley's awesome Guide to Climbing + Hiking in SW BC, I have been thinking alot about the politics of naming geological features in our region.

In our day and age of reconciliation, I wonder if we will ever see the re-naming of mountains/geological features in BC back to original First Nations names? For example, Mount Garibaldi being changed back to the Squamish name Nch'Kay. I live in Gibsons, BC where the local mountain (Mt. Elphinstone) was named for an English admiral who apparently never actually set foot in the area...fully sketchy if you ask me. In the climbing world, obviously you want to honour first ascents and all, but what about place names that have existed here for 1000s of years previous to European settlement? I find it fascinating to think about - what do you think?

zeljkok 01-07-2018 10:42 PM

It is an interesting question. I don't have cast in stone opinion because there is more than 1 way to skin the cat, but personally always felt ... sort of nicer, not sure what is the right word, when driving on Sea to Sky and seeing these traffic signs with both English and Coast Salish names:

http://www.insidevancouver.ca/wp-con...ry3-Custom.jpg

I think one has to ask the question: What does the name represent? It is human association with certain entity, be it mountain peak, printed book, or human being - so when this name is said, everyone knows what we are talking about. This is practical side; i.e "Garibaldi" or "Edmund Hillary" of "Vancouver Sun". In that respect changing "Garibaldi" back to "Nch'Kay" might not be good idea. In the other hand, names are also there to pay respect -- i.e. first ascent of mountain peak, or celebrate heritage -- i.e. native names. From that angle, "Elphinstone", although quite stylish indeed doesn't seem appropriate

This is maybe why I enjoyed dual traffic signs because I saw both practicality of modern times and heritage of the past in them.

prother 01-08-2018 11:55 AM

Regarding the naming of features, Mt Arrowsmith was named after Aaron Arrowsmith and his nephew, John Arrowsmith, two English cartographers.

The native names for the mountain were, from the west, Kuth-Kah-Chulth (that which has sharp pointed faces), as seen from Port Alberni. From the east (Qualicum/ Parksville) the natives called it “The Sleeping Maiden”. I haven’t yet found the native pronunciation.

From the beach, in Parksville or Qualicum, it does look like a woman on her back, with Mt Cokely being her face and with the upper ski slopes being her hair, the “Bumps” being her breasts, the main summit her clasped hands over her stomach and the “South Summit” being her feet.

Another interesting note is, on the Arrowsmith maps drawn in 1822 and 1848, Vancouver Island is clearly labeled “Wakash Nation”. Also, the body of water between the Island and the Mainland is labeled as Georgia Straight, so I assume “Sailish Sea” is a modern name, to honour First Nations.

xj6response 01-08-2018 05:27 PM

interesting discussion, one that i've had elsewhere for years. Some time ago I purchased the book "Encyclopedia of Raincoast Place Names" for more insight to the many coastal places I have been to. In the mid 90's I was given a gift by the Gitxsan Wet'suwet'en people in Hazelton, for work done for them in forest ecology and resource survey work. It was a map with ALL the original native place names in the region. Some of these were actually very funny when translated. For example, two breast shaped local summits were correctly translated as "Big Tits Mountains" and another hill as "Big Ass Mountain". NO sexism intended here, those are the facts.

Many of our local south coast names came from Caps Richards during his intense survey of 1860+/- a few years. He even named Mt Garibaldi after the Italian climber. I actually visited the village of Elphinstone in Tranent, Scotland about 15 years ago where the Elphinstones family had their peerage from the 1400's. The village was named for a dark ages witch who turned her servant elves into stone, or Elph-in-stone. Every time i hike up there I'm reminded of that trip.

I personally like seeing the aboriginal names on signs and i appreciate reading what those names originally meant. Place names are meaningful.

woodland.telegraph 01-08-2018 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljkok (Post 824746)
It is an interesting question. I don't have cast in stone opinion because there is more than 1 way to skin the cat, but personally always felt ... sort of nicer, not sure what is the right word, when driving on Sea to Sky and seeing these traffic signs with both English and Coast Salish names.

I hear you - seeing Squamish names on the Sea to Sky signage is great. I especially like the Tantalus roadside viewpoint with the stories of the mountain goat hunters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prother (Post 824818)
Regarding the naming of features, Mt Arrowsmith was named after Aaron Arrowsmith and his nephew, John Arrowsmith, two English cartographers.

It sounds like you have a deep knowledge of the Arrowsmith area - would you say that your knowledge of the First Nations + settler history adds to your own enjoyment of the place? Just curious - the more I learn about Squamish traditional territory, the more I feel connected to the places I have been exploring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj6response (Post 824882)
Many of our local south coast names came from Caps Richards during his intense survey of 1860+/- a few years. He even named Mt Garibaldi after the Italian climber. I actually visited the village of Elphinstone in Tranent, Scotland about 15 years ago where the Elphinstones family had their peerage from the 1400's. The village was named for a dark ages witch who turned her servant elves into stone, or Elph-in-stone. Every time i hike up there I'm reminded of that trip.

I personally like seeing the aboriginal names on signs and i appreciate reading what those names originally meant. Place names are meaningful.

That's rad that you visited the birthplace of the Elphinstone name. I am sure that the Sechelt and Squamish Nation both have names for Elphinstone, but I haven't seen it listed on any maps so far. I wonder if some of these places on the Sunshine Coast will ever be re-named for the original names used by the Nations in our neck of the woods?

xj6response 01-08-2018 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodland.telegraph (Post 824914)
.... I am sure that the Sechelt and Squamish Nation both have names for Elphinstone, but I haven't seen it listed on any maps so far. I wonder if some of these places on the Sunshine Coast will ever be re-named for the original names used by the Nations in our neck of the woods?

At times past i asked some sechelt native people I know if there is an aboriginal name for Elphinstone but nobody knew if there was. I'm sure there is, I'm going to find out

Archive 01-08-2018 11:29 PM

Just to cross post for Michel:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/exp...t_elphinstone/

Hunting is permitted.

prother 01-09-2018 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by prother View Post
Regarding the naming of features, Mt Arrowsmith was named after Aaron Arrowsmith and his nephew, John Arrowsmith, two English cartographers.
It sounds like you have a deep knowledge of the Arrowsmith area - would you say that your knowledge of the First Nations + settler history adds to your own enjoyment of the place? Just curious - the more I learn about Squamish traditional territory, the more I feel connected to the places I have been exploring.

Yes, I spent over ten years working on Mt Arrowsmith to become a protected park and worked with Frist Nations. When the park dedication ceremony happened, the Hupacasath people wove a ribbon from cedar bark and gave me the honour of cutting it.

xj6response 01-09-2018 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prother (Post 825114)

Yes, I spent over ten years working on Mt Arrowsmith to become a protected park and worked with Frist Nations. When the park dedication ceremony happened, the Hupacasath people wove a ribbon from cedar bark and gave me the honour of cutting it.

Kudos, Prother, well done. The Mt Arrowsmith Massif Park is a gem, an absolute fave for hundreds of hikers in the area. Very glad it's there for humans and wildlife to enjoy.

Candy Sack 01-09-2018 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj6response (Post 824882)
Many of our local south coast names came from Caps Richards during his intense survey of 1860+/- a few years. He even named Mt Garibaldi after the Italian climber.

So Mt Garibaldi is named after Giuseppe Garibaldi, the famous 19th century Italian mountaineer? ;) If you say so.

xj6response 01-10-2018 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candy Sack (Post 825330)
So Mt Garibaldi is named after Giuseppe Garibaldi, the famous 19th century Italian mountaineer? ;) If you say so.

No, I don't say so. Actually nobody says so, except me in a dumb-ass CT post after two glasses of Italian red wine. I think i was inspired! LOL :)

"In 1860, while carrying out a survey of Howe Sound on board the Royal Navy survey ship HMS Plumper, Captain George Henry Richards was impressed by a gigantic mountain dominating the view to the northeast. Captain Richards, and his officers, renamed the mountain after the Italian military and political leader Giuseppe Garibaldi, who that year had succeeded in unifying Italy by patriating Sicily and Naples". I don't think Giuseppe ever climbed as much as the hill to his local pizzeria LOL :)

There's a fish named after him too. How did that happen?

zeljkok 01-10-2018 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj6response (Post 825354)
Actually nobody says so, except me in a dumb-ass CT post after two glasses of Italian red wine. I think i was inspired! LOL :)

o-o-o Is that your alcohol tolerance level? 2 glasses of wine? :D

xj6response 01-10-2018 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljkok (Post 825378)
o-o-o Is that your alcohol tolerance level? 2 glasses of wine? :D

Yup, pretty much these days. As we know, our alcohol tolerance increases as we hike more and hiking is a bit in short supply this past week or so. LOL ;)

zeljkok 01-10-2018 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xj6response (Post 825538)
Yup, pretty much these days. As we know, our alcohol tolerance increases as we hike more and hiking is a bit in short supply this past week or so. LOL ;)

LOL. Should hike more with Spectrum then >:)
Just kidding

xj6response 01-11-2018 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljkok (Post 825634)
LOL. Should hike more with Spectrum then >:)
Just kidding

Hike with Spectrum? That's sort of mountain suicide!! ;)


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