Softmap Topo Maps - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #16 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 02:46 PM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Canoeing, Hiking, Fishing and Bear kissing.
Posts: 4,501
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dru

It would not really be any different. That's kind of the point - printing out a SoftMap at 1:75K doesn't give you any advantage over a 1:50K map except fitting more terrain on the paper, which you pay for by making the text font smaller and harder to read.
Ok, this is what I thought, and also why I like the advantage of Softmap's ability to print to a 46"x40" roll of paper from a plotter which I keep at the 1.5 scale, because thats what I use in camp to get around the small text problem you mention.

Obviously I can neither laminate a map that size nor be unfolding it while on the go and in a canoe... which is why I make the letter sized sectional prints of the big map at the 1.75 scale which I can laminate.

Another point I should mention though.. is that the quality of prints I get from the free Gov topos is a better than what I get from my SoftMap prints.
Monster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 04:09 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Westminster, BC, Canada.
Posts: 1,375
Default

You could of course always print out the gov't maps at any size you want, plotter or whatever...

They are scanned in at 300dpi, pretty nice, though almost too good for most things, makes them really big images!
swebster is offline  
post #18 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
Off the Beaten Path
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maple Ridge, BC, Canada.
Interest: Photography, Skiing
Posts: 795
Default

Wow! Thanks for all the help
David and Karen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:11 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, astronomy, music...
Posts: 1,581
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by swebster

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by darrenbell

Hey Mag; thanks for the ER viewer link. I have a number of those free maps downloaded but couldn't figure out how to work with them as far as selecting a section and printing it out.
If you are just talking about the large TIFF images then you can use basically any image editor to select an area and then crop the image. Then print.
No you can't. The NTS maps are geotiffs, meaning that they have coordinate system information embeded within them. ER Viewer will preserve this information even in a cropped subset of the original. Regular, non-spatial image editing software will remove the geotiff info, resulting in what we call a raw or dumb tiff. The whole point of these images is to have the coordinate system embeded within the file. I you use ER Viewer, you can roam the cursor over the image, or cropped image and see the UTM NAD83 coordinates for any point on the map.
magnetite is offline  
post #20 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:18 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, astronomy, music...
Posts: 1,581
Default

Quote:
quote:

You may be able to print out a map from SoftMap at 1:75K, but all it is is a shrunken (zoomed out) view of the government 1:50K map - not a true rescaling. You could get the same perspective by printing a 1:50K map on your printer at 67% of normal size
Dru is correct. Printing a map at a different scale than the map was created for does not give you a map at the different scale, it just fools you into thinking that's what you have.
magnetite is offline  
post #21 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:29 PM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Canoeing, Hiking, Fishing and Bear kissing.
Posts: 4,501
Default

It does not 'fool' you... you are really using a 1.75 scale map with accurate UTM grid and distance scale. Take a look at my posted example above, as noted the only caveat is that you also reduce the text of the names on the map, but not the labels on the edge of the map when using SoftMap to create the print.
Monster is offline  
post #22 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 11:03 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Westminster, BC, Canada.
Posts: 1,375
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by magnetite
Dru is correct. Printing a map at a different scale than the map was created for does not give you a map at the different scale, it just fools you into thinking that's what you have.
...but that's all a "scale" is, what distance on the map corresponds to what distance in reality. I don't use any of the geotiff features. I just load them in an image editor, and choose whatever scale I want, and print them out. If I'm going to a small area I print at 1:20k or something. If a large area I can still read things pretty well at 1:75k or even 1:100k.

A totally different issue is the contouring and size of things like words on the map. These have nothing to do with the scale. Often using the 20m contour TRIM data that BC has is nice for more detail. But again, you can print these maps at any scale you want. 1:20k, 1:10k, 1:1000k etc.

An IDEAL situation would be to have a very detailed digital elevation model of the province and software to generate whatever contours you wanted. Then you could do this specially for each map, to suit your needs. Unfortunately this is not an easy task to automate. Making a map that actually looks good and works well is not trivial, that's why the NTS maps are sometimes superior to things you whip up on BC basemap, even if the detail is not as good... and also why sometimes it is nice to buy the Cloverpoint 1:20k series maps.
swebster is offline  
post #23 of (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 11:22 PM
Off the Beaten Path
 
NS Explorer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North Vancouver, , Canada.
Interest: Hiking, Scrambling, Trail Running, Mountain Biking, SAR
Posts: 843
Default

I have Softmap and it sucks.
NS Explorer is offline  
post #24 of (permalink) Old 04-24-2008, 03:28 AM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Canoeing, Hiking, Fishing and Bear kissing.
Posts: 4,501
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by NS Explorer

I have Softmap and it sucks.
It really depends on your needs as there are pros and cons to both proprietary topo software and the free Gov topo maps.


For instance...


SoftMap Pros

- UTM overlay grids to the scale of your choice, both on monitor and on prints with correct distance scales included.

- Allows you to select the entire area you want print or view and in a pre-defined scale, no joining together of the corners from four different fixed-region maps to view the exact area you need.

- Exact scaling available for viewing or for prints, the one caveat being reduced font for on-map labels, however border labels and distance scales are resized accurately by software.

- Ability to print to any custom size, letter size to your home inkjet or 46" x 40" size rolls to a commercial plotter.


SoftMap Cons

- Low DPI scans are used for topos, not pretty on screen or on print compared with free Gov topos, however perfectly readable at my all important 1:75,000 scale.

- Not free, SoftMap topos cost about $150.00 in Canuck Bucks after taxes while the Gov topos are free.


Gov topo Pros

- High resolution scans that are both pretty in print and on monitor.

- 100% Free.

- Maps are at least 16" x 20" printed at full size have a high DPI making attractive plotter prints.

Gov topo Cons

- Fixed regions means you will most likely have to join at least a couple of different maps together by means of manual third party cut and paste software.

- No rescaling available without third party resizing technique, only choice 1:50,000 or 1:250,000.

- No UTM grid scaling support.



Monster is offline  
post #25 of (permalink) Old 04-24-2008, 07:28 AM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, astronomy, music...
Posts: 1,581
Default

Map scale means much more than distance on the ground converted to distance on a map. Plotting a 50K map at 10K [V].
magnetite is offline  
post #26 of (permalink) Old 04-24-2008, 07:58 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, astronomy, music...
Posts: 1,581
Default

I keep seeing the words "detail" and accuracy used on CT in a very nebulous manner. Detail simply refers to how much information is on a map. Accuracy is very closely related to scale, for two-dimensional position AND elevation, and it has a very specific meaning.

A general rule of thumb for estimating the positional accuracy (aka error) of any well-made map, in metres, is to divide the map scale by 2000. For example, a 1:50,000 scale map would be estimated to have up to 50,000/2000 = +/-25 metres error. This is the case for many of the NTS maps(but was sometimes worse in rural areas with sparse survey control). The accuracy=scale/2000 formula actually comes from the long standing mapping standards stating that the position of an object on a printed map should be within 1/2 mm of it's true position. Scale/2000 will calculate the 1/2mm equivalent in metres on the ground for any map scale.

When maps are made, the scale is determined by the error known to be in the data. For example, If it is known that features have better than, but possibly up to +/-10m error, the largest scale map that can be made to standard is 1:20,000. It's this known error that defines a map scale; it is not as simple as saying that scale is "what distance on the map corresponds to what distance in reality." The problem with printing a 1:50,000 scale map at a larger scale, such as 1:20,000, is that you still have a map with the error inherent the 1:50,000 scale map, just magnified 2.5x. In a case like this you really have just fooled yourself into thinking that you have a 1:20,000 scale map. Sure, software allows you to print at any scale, but it's a bit like thinking that something is bigger than it used to be, simply because you're standing closer to it. This basically reiterates what Dru has said, but hopefully provides the explanation as to why he's right.

On the other hand, I can see your point when it comes to stitching maps together and printing them at a smaller scale for the sake of covering a larger area on less paper. In this case you still have a 1:50,000 scale map (defined by the error), zoomed out to 2/3 size (but go ahead and call it 1:75,000 I suppose).

The data that was used to produce the BC 1:20,000 scale TRIM maps (DEM included) was compiled so that 95% of the features on the maps would have less than a +/-10 metre error (most are between 5m and 8m). This allowed us to produce data suitable for use at 1:20,000 scale, but not 1:10,000 scale.

Likewise, the rules for elevation contour lines are also very closely related to scale. Standards for producing contour lines dictate that the accuracy of a contour line should be +/- 1/2 the contour interval or better for 90% of the line length (sometimes 95% depending on the application). For example, BC TRIM data has 20m contour lines because the elevation data used to make these lines has a vertical error less than +/-10m, 90% of the time (there's that 10m value again)). TRIM DEM is suitable for producing contour lines at 20m intervals or larger, but not less than 20m. Like printing maps at any scale, software will allow you to just push a few buttons and produce contour intervals at any interval; the result will be a meaningless contour map with lots of extra lines.

If all you're going to use a map for is hiking and paddling, then don't be too concerned about all this stuff. If you're going to use technology that deals with it, it's best to know a little about these things so that you don't waste your paper, time and money producing things of little or no added value compared to what you could get for free.
I don't know the specifics about Softmap capabilities, but considering the fact that a North Shore Rescue member, and senior engineer for the city said it sucks, I'll take his word for it.
magnetite is offline  
post #27 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2008, 09:38 AM
Summit Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Canoeing, Hiking, Fishing and Bear kissing.
Posts: 4,501
Default

Wow... I'll keep all that in mind if I ever decide to engineer a city but for now at least, SoftMap is the only product that will produce the size and scale of maps I need.
Monster is offline  
post #28 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2008, 02:26 PM
Headed for the Mountains
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Posts: 237
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by swebster

They are scanned in at 300dpi, pretty nice, though almost too good for most things, makes them really big images!
Converting from TIFF to PNG will make the files smaller with no loss of image quality. However, you will lose the embedded GeoTIFF data.

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Monster

Gov topo Cons

- Fixed regions means you will most likely have to join at least a couple of different maps together by means of manual third party cut and paste software.

- No rescaling available without third party resizing technique, only choice 1:50,000 or 1:250,000.

- No UTM grid scaling support.
OziExplorer (http://www.oziexplorer.com) and it's Map Merge utility easily handle all of these issues.

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Monster

SoftMap is the only product that will produce the size and scale of maps I need.
OziExplorer would likely do what you need as well. It also works with GPS units and is less than half the price of SoftMap Pro.
PaulB is offline  
post #29 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2008, 03:05 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Interest: Mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, astronomy, music...
Posts: 1,581
Default

This tool will alow you to compress a geotiff for free. http://www.ermapper.com/Downloads.aspx?v=316
The resulting smaller image will retain the geotiff information. The input limit is 50Mb. The resulting image can be viewed in ER Viewer (also free) and most other spatial image viewing software.
magnetite is offline  
post #30 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2008, 10:00 PM
High on the Mountain Top
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Westminster, BC, Canada.
Posts: 1,375
Default

Actually, I wasn't really referring to the file size, just the pixel size of the image. Takes a lot of memory when loaded in an image viewer and can be slow to resize/pan etc.
swebster is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1