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post #16 of (permalink) Old 10-19-2010, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
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Just to give an update on my findings so far

Life insurance rider for climbing was an additional $200/month, yes $200/month for a $1M life insurance. Also the insurance companies that he went through had no riders for out of bound skiing at all (=no coverage). My broker suggested not to take this "climbing" rider but go with the regular insurance and get AD&D on top of it. The AD&D is $40/month per $500K per family.

My broker knows that it doesn't make sense but that's the way it is. There are also no restrictions on AD&D in regards to climbing as long as it is an accident. If you consider this AD&D option as your coverage for climbing/skiing you might want to take regular insurance on top because if the accident is caused by something medical it is not covered (i.e. killed by car accident because of heart attack)

My broker has not found an insurance company for disability that covers climbing :-( I figure it would cost a fortune just looking at the premiums I have to pay for regular disability...
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 10-19-2010, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
quote:Life insurance rider for climbing was an additional $200/month, yes $200/month for a $1M life insurance
I guess they didn't get the memo that tells them people that are heavy into climbing have no money to pay the premiums lol.
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 10-19-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by johngenx

I told my climbing partner to haul my body down to the highway and throw me under a passing truck...
sounds like my theory on fields trips, in exploration camps, etc. If someone dies, its a lot of paperwork. If they went to take a piss and went missing, its a 911 call. Nobody is going to search the bottom of a flooded mine shaft.
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 10-19-2010, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wbylsma
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by swebster

I didn't have much trouble getting life insurance through London Life... I had to do a telephone interview, but I answered everything truthfully and told them about my mountaineering, backcountry skiing etc. and was approved.
Sounds sketchy, would want to check their policy and their terms and conditions...
Why does it sound sketchy? Anyway, I just checked my policy and there is no problem with doing whatever, no exclusions for any activities. It even explicitly contains the answers to my questions re: mountaineering etc, so it's clear that I was up front with them when I signed up. This is the London Life policy. I also have another policy through Canada Life and it is basically the same. I'm somewhat surprised people are having so much trouble, but maybe I was just lucky. I guess this is why you should get life insurance early, before you start all these activities! Once you've got the policy you can start whatever dangerous sports you want

Edit: my policies are life only, I make no claims regarding disability insurance
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 10-19-2010, 10:44 PM
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Things are changing. It's getting more difficult to buy insurance for high-risk activities, and people are discovering this. Personally, I didn't use to have any trouble and premiums were low. Being over 40 now and engaging in several risky sports along with the new emphasis on avoiding pay-outs by insurance companies, my quotes were very high. If you have an included policy that has low premiums, consider yourself lucky...
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 10-19-2010, 11:03 PM
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They should be asking people what they eat and how often they drive instead of do you ski or climb. Stupid do nothing office jockies.
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by time2clmb

They should be asking people what they eat and how often they drive instead of do you ski or climb. Stupid do nothing office jockies.
Yeah - no kidding! If you think about it, people who regularly eat at fast food places should have $200/month premiums for heart attacks, strokes, obesity etc. People who climb are usually in much better physical condition than other folks and usually much more motivated to stay physically healthy.

I'm lucky because when I got my disability / life insurance I was only scrambling, not doing roped climbs or skiing.

I am also very negative towards insurance companies. I think companies will do everything in their considerable power NOT to pay out when something does happen.
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
quote:I think companies will do everything in their considerable power NOT to pay out when something does
The insurance adjusters who's jobs it is to do everything in their power to not pay out claims are pieces of human filth. Each individual, and I don't care if they say "i'm just doing my job"...you're a waste of skin.

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post #24 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 11:16 AM
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Insurance used to be about managing risk through diversification. This means that they create a large pool of clients that all pay a small amount, and most never use the coverage. The trick is to figure out the rate at which things happen.

So, in terms of climbers, it might be true that on an individual basis, a climber might lead a somewhat dangerous life, but since there are so few climbers, insurance companies didn't care.

Then computers were invented and the ability to realize their greed became a reality. Companies now had the ability to individualize their pool and increase profits dramatically.

Insurance companies then invested their premiums (as always) but changes in laws allowed them to invest in ridiculously risky investments, and they recently lost a ton of dough. So, they need to make sure they milk the insurance biz for every penny they can, and hence, the dramatic changes to coverage for anyone that does anything more than sit on the couch. BUT, they have begun charging people extra for doing that too. When I bought my coverage recently, I may have had to exclude my climbing activities, but I did get a terrific rate for my low BP, low resting HR, low cholesterol, and low BMI. They had a nurse visit my home and do a full work up.
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post #25 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by johngenx
but I did get a terrific rate for my low BP, low resting HR, low cholesterol, and low BMI. They had a nurse visit my home and do a full work up.
LOL - I had the same thing happen. The nurse was impressed.
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 03:42 PM
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Sounds like insurance adjusters need to take Psychology 101 and educate themsevles on the Availability Heuristic.
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post #27 of (permalink) Old 10-27-2010, 12:40 PM
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I'm coming back to this thread with the original question;

What are people in the climbing community doing about insurance (life and/or disability)? The answer so far is pretty scary because it basically amounts to "not much". This isn't acceptable for my situation.

I re-read my life insurance policy and in it I specifically said "no" to roped climbing. Back when I filled out the questionairre I was only scrambling so I wasn't lying. The part that scares me is the exclusion list which includes all the obvious things like sky diving, climbing, diving but the real kicker is the undefined sentence at the end which states, "and any other extreme sporting acivity". This would include back country skiing and probably most of my scrambles too.

Nice. NOT.

Now I am forced to seriously consider giving up roped climbing or ski mountaineering at least until I can find a life insurance policy that won't cost me $200/month and will cover me. I can't in good conscience go back country skiing, die in an avalanche and leave my wife and kids with NOTHING.

Wietse - what's the difference between AD&D (Accidental Death & Disability) and life insurance?

So I ask - do you know if you are leaving any insurance behind for your loved ones if you die in the mountains? If you are on a plan that covers this please enlighten!
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post #28 of (permalink) Old 10-27-2010, 12:52 PM
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Well, as I said before, my policies have no exclusions like that. But maybe you can't buy such a thing anymore. I got the most recent policy only a few years ago though, so it's not like it's ancient history.
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 10-27-2010, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Vern - You might (yes MIGHT) be okay.

If you said no to climbing (or any other extreme sport) more than 3 years ago (I believe that's the number in Canada but this might be more depending on provincial rules or between companies) and you now die doing climbing the contestability clause kicks in.

See http://www.ehow.com/list_5766083_lif...ity-rules.html

But that is what would apply

Your personal hobbies are a great concern to life insurance companies, especially if they involve activities that may place you at a greater risk of an untimely death. Nearly every individual life insurance application contains questions pertaining to specific activities that the insurance carrier deems unacceptable or potentially risky. Most carriers ask if your hobbies include skydiving, hang gliding, rock climbing, race car driving, cave exploring, or scuba diving. If you die within the contestability period and it is determined that one of your pastimes included a restricted or prohibited activity, the insurance carrier may rescind your policy. However, legislators acknowledge that anyone may gain an interest in a new hobby at any time in their life, and therefore agree that an insurance company can only hold you accountable for your "no" responses for a period of two years.

My agent told me that the companies they work with don't even have a rider for BC-skiing so I guess that would mean that even after the two years (contestability period) it still wouldn't pay out.

AD&D pays out when you die of an accident or loose a body part or sight from an accident. Normally the dismemberment is only a fraction of the face value of the policy and not the whole amount and is depending on the loss.

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post #30 of (permalink) Old 10-27-2010, 01:50 PM
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I know a climber that had his house paid for. He wasn't able to buy life insurance with climbing coverage, and discovered that his bank's mortgage insurance had only basic health questions, so he mortgaged his house to the hilt with a low interest mortgage. He put the bucks into a long term annuity that actually pays close to his mortgage rate.

Now, he has life insurance in the amount of the outstanding mortgage on his home. It is declining balance, but he figures as he ages over the next 25 years, his family requires less insurance anyway.

I thought that a pretty creative solution.

Personally, I would doubt that many underwriters today have policies that don't investigate your "extreme sports hobbies." (Jesus, I hate the word "extreme.") If you have such coverage, kiss your blarney stone, 'cause you're in luck. I have an old policy that covers me climbing and costs almost nothing, but when the term expires, I'm screwed on it. Then, the only coverage I'll have is through my school board, which is better than nothing, but not really adequate considering how young my daughter is. Luckily, my wife earns a reasonable living.
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