Thanks to everyone who provided good tips on taking pictures of people in that other thread, especially Hodgeman and Anon E Moose. Lots of great information and tips there! I hadn't heard about the "Rule of Thirds" until recently, but in thinking about it, it really makes sense.

One question, though. In a lot of my pictures, I find the people are way too dark, while the mountains/snow in the background are way too bright. Sometimes I've had to take pictures of people in a shadow while the mountain behind is in sunshine. I've just been taking automatic pictures so far. Should I be making manual adjustments to compensate in situations like that? I've been able to "fix" the pictures a little afterwards by adjusting the gamma, whatever that is, but any tips to help reduce this problem would be appreciated. Oh, and other outdoor people shots for examples, good and bad, would be appreciated too. Thanks!

PB

If the people are close enough, force the flash on, and it makes for a great pic. The people in the foreground are lit up and the background it lit up because its already bright. If they are further away though that's a different story.

Thanks for starting a new thread - and my bad for getting caught up in some useless banter on that other thread [:I]

Your question brings the most difficult challenge in photography (or one of them). The best example used by an instructor I had was the wedding photo. Do you expose for the black suit, or the white wedding dress?
One answer is to use the manual functions of your camera, when you can't use the flash for filling light. Try one picture at the exposure your camera tells you, then one that would underexpose the dark elements in the picture, and one exposure that would overexpose the lighter elements, if that makes sense. Somewhere in there is a happy medium.
Sometimes in photoshop if there is enough information in the file you can bring out details in the darker parts of the photo, using levels to adjust, or select the area concerned and use contrast to adjust, or selective color (there's a number of ways to fix a photo)
With the luxury of digital cameras you can trial and error, I have learned much from my misteaks with my digital camera.
Hope this helps

photoshop cs - for those who have access to it - is great for lightening darker areas of pictures. Not that you can't do it with other software, but this feature (Image / Adjustments / Shadow/Hightlights) makes it very easy for amateurs like me.

Keeping that in mind, I'd rather take my shot with the lightest objects properly exposed, and the darkest ones underexposed. Later I draw the detail out of the shadows. (I'm kinda repeating what Shadee said here...)

Here's an example from a recent outing.


Original


Adjusted

Good tips!

One trick I've tried is simply an expansion of what Shadee already suggested. By taking an under and over exposure shot of the same scene you can then layer the two photos in your editing program and erase out the areas that are under exposed and then merge the two photos. Granted it doesn't always return great results but sometimes it works nicely.

Yes, you should be making manual adjustments to compensate in situations like that, when it is possible, providing you really want that particular shot. As the photographer you also need to read your environment to see what angles of light will help to light their faces. Sometimes by turning people just a little one way or the other makes all the difference. You can even use snow or lakes to reflect light onto their faces if they are standing close enough to those elements.

Obviously we sometimes are forced into that shot where the beautiful backdrop requires the people to stand in one particular place so we can capture the two components together. Maybe in that situation where there faces fall in shadows regardless of our efforts, we could aim for a different style. Try for a cool silhouette or go for that candid shot where maybe they are looking at the scenery and you are able to get profile shots of them with part of their features lit up.

Experimentation is the best teacher!


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"Be careful of the words you say, keep them soft and sweet; You never know from day to day which ones you'll have to eat." ~~Unknown~~

"you cannot "save" extreme over and under exposures with your photo editing software"

"Digital Exposure Challenges

The main challenges stem from digital captures' reduced exposure tolerance (latitude) compared to negative film, including digital's struggle to maintain highlight detail. In the digital world, a skin tone image can only be underexposed by as far as 5/10 of a stop (one half stop) and still yield a good looking print. That same skin tone can only be over exposed by 3/10 of a stop and still be in tolerance—assuming the subject is not too shiny or specular.

However, once you get beyond those exposure limits, the captured image quality just will not yield a great print (and no, you cannot "save" extreme over and under exposures with your photo editing software). So, how can this 8/10th stop exposure range be achieved out in the digital field? With a little testing, perseverance and these 5 secrets…

5 Digital On-Camera Flash Secrets
1. Bounce / Diffuse Everything
Digital capture often has a tough time recording highlight detail to the same quality as film. To counteract this, you need to strive for smoother, lower contrast light quality with your on-camera flash. The best way to do this is to increase the size of your light source by bouncing the flash, and by lowering the specularity of the light through diffusion.


2. More Power Captain!
Bouncing and diffusing takes a lot of power, so step up and buy the most powerful flash you can afford.
3. Choose Auto Over TTL
switching to the Auto mode on your flash, you will see your exposure success rise to about 88 out of 100 images.
4. Measure and Test Shoot for Confidence
A good flashmeter will read flash exposures under most conditions where the flash is dominant—meaning your flash is greater than the ambient light.*
5. Use Your Noodle
"bride in a white dress against a light colored wall cutting a white cake" What to do? See #3.
http://www.acdsystems.com/English/Co...2004-07-27.htm

PeakBagger - The replies so far pretty well have your question covered with good suggestions. I would repeat that you would have better success improving the shot, after the fact, if it the subject is a bit on the dark side, rather than the background being too light. If the definition of the sky, peak, clouds etc has been blown out completely then no adjust ment will bring back what isn't there.

You did say that you have been just shooting on 'automatic' so far. You can still leave the shutter and aperature settings to be determined automatically, but take control of the exposure by using the 'spot-meter' setting on you camera, if you aren't already.

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^^ Go Vertical ! ^^

From Anon's research he has quoted, "you cannot "save" extreme over and under exposures with your photo editing software." However, as some of us have stated through experience you can sometimes be fortunate enough to save a picture if the exposure levels are not too extreme. Example being Jim's photos. Unfortunately, the print quality will not be that great unless you select a smaller version to be printed, such as a wallet size. If you only plan on viewing that picture on your monitor then the poorer quality isn't as noticeable and still can be enjoyed by the viewer.

I try to save as many of my poorer looking shots as possible. Once I make some adjustments with my editing software I sometimes am quite surprised at the results. Sure it would be nice to have a better quality camera to achieve these results without software adjustments, but sometimes we just have to use what sources we have available.

Hodgeman: Could you please explain spot-metering for people like me who don't quite get what that is?

I sometimes do this thing where I force my depth of focus. There are times when I'm trying to get my camera to focus on just a persons face but the automatic settings choose to select the whole body. So, I will put my hand in front of the camera allowing only the upper portion of my lense to focus on something. Thus I'm forcing my focus to be where I want. Is this similar to spot-metering?

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"Be careful of the words you say, keep them soft and sweet; You never know from day to day which ones you'll have to eat." ~~Unknown~~

I decided to save Hodgeman the trouble of answering my question and looked it up myself.

The following was borrowed from Focused on Photography: http://www.focussedonphotography.com/exposure.html

Spot metering

When the scene that you are photographing contains both illuminated and unlit areas it can be difficult to correctly expose your composition; in situations like this it is a good idea to use your built in spot metering facility.

A spot meter measures the light levels in a very small portion of your composition to come up with a combination of shutter speed and aperture that will result in a correctly exposed image. If you are correct in your spot metering technique, medium grey subjects will be recorded on your film as a medium tone, bright areas will be recorded as highlights and the darker regions of your composition will be recorded as tones that are darker than 18% medium grey.

There are a few different spot metering techniques to consider. Firstly, to take a basic spot meter reading simply isolate a part of your scene that is close to 18% grey that you want to include in your composition by using a zoom lens or by getting closer to your subject and half depress your shutter release button to lock the exposure in place. Keeping the exposure locked in place, recompose your shot. Once you have your composition determined, including every subject that you desire within your view finder, fully depress the shutter release button to take the shot. It is a good idea to do this in aperture priority mode after you have decided on the amount of depth you want recorded in your image and set the f / number accordingly. It is very important that the part of the scene that you isolate is as close as possible in color to a medium grey tone. An object that is lighter will underexpose your image, while a darker object will overexpose your image. Bracket to ensure that you come away with a couple of great images.

Secondly, visit your local camera retailer and buy a grey card. Using a grey card to spot meter off is safer than metering off objects that you think are close to an 18 percent grey tone. Place your grey card in the same light as the composition that you are shooting and take a spot meter reading off it by isolating an area of the card with your zoom lens and half depress the shutter release button to lock your exposure in place, again in aperture priority mode so that you can control depth of field. Once you have your suggested spot metered exposure locked in place, recompose your subject and fully depress the shutter release button to take the shot.

Maybe that write-up will help you PeakBagger.

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"Be careful of the words you say, keep them soft and sweet; You never know from day to day which ones you'll have to eat." ~~Unknown~~

In the spirit of Thanksgiving, I offer you ACD's veritable cornucopia of Photo Tips including such topics as:

04-27-04 Hiking Photography
04-17-04 Using Big Space for Effect
02-29-04 15 Essential Wildlife Photography Tips
01-15-04 Photographing Ice (& Snow)
11-06-03 Impressive Winter Landscape Photos
10-16-03 Phenomenal Fall Photos
08-23-03 Low Light Campfire Photos

Photography Tips
11-21-04 Bird Photography Starter Tips 2
11-11-04 Focusing in Difficult Scenarios
10-23-04 Exposure Tolerance of Typical Small Format (35mm style) Digital Capture Files
10-05-04 Creative Experimentation
09-25-04 Spirit of Fall Photos
09-18-04 Natural Light: The Art of Seeing and Interpreting the Light of Nature
09-04-04 Bird Photography: Starter Tips (Part 1 – Equipment and Range)
08-31-04 Equilibrium in Composition
08-21-04 Black and White Photography Tips
07-29-04 Frameline Magnetism
07-17-04 The Digital Push: Avoiding Camera Shake by Underexposing
07-10-04 Gestalt: Lines of Sight
07-03-04 Fireworks: Quick Photo Tips
06-19-04 Portraits: Backdrops, Settings and Lighting
06-12-04 Anatomy of a Smile
06-05-04 Robert Franking Your Style
05-29-04 Light Control: Color Richness
05-29-04 Wonderful Waterfalls
05-22-04 Making, Not Taking, Photographs
05-18-04 Gestalt: Figure/Ground
05-08-04 Landscape Photography and Focal Length
04-17-04 Using Big Space for Effect
04-07-04 Photo Composition: Using Perspective
04-03-04 Photo Composition: Theme, Emphasis, and Simplicity
03-20-04 Choosing the Best Photo Orientation
03-11-04 Using Your Zoom Better
03-11-04 Digital ISO Noise and How to Fix It
02-29-04 15 Essential Wildlife Photography Tips
02-21-04 Simple Backgrounds, Elegant Results
02-05-04 Architecture Photos: Spicing Up Your Collection
01-31-04 Enhancing Artistic Impact: Pre-Focus and the Rule of Thirds
01-25-04 Architecture: Night Photos
01-15-04 Photographing Ice (& Snow)
01-15-04 Converting Photos to Black and White: Three Different Ways and Their Results
01-02-04 Framing Your Photos
12-20-03 Festive Lights
12-19-03 (Winter) Window Portraits
12-08-03 Translucent Impressions
11-29-03 Black and White Photography: Good Times to Use It
11-23-03 Using EV Compensation for Effect
11-22-03 Portraits in Three Layers
11-08-03 Fantastic Urban Foregrounds
11-06-03 Impressive Winter Landscape Photos
11-01-03 Special Low-Light Effects: Bulb and Time Mode
10-25-03 Night Photography Ideas
10-18-03 Phantasmic Fog Photos
10-16-03 Phenomenal Fall Photos
10-16-03 Mastering Indoor Flash Exposure
10-11-03 Group Photos Made Easy
10-04-03 Rare Rainy Day Photos
10-04-03 Controlling Color in Indoor Photos
09-27-03 Sharp Action Photos
09-20-03 Landmarking Landscape Photos
09-18-03 Better Digital Photo Color
09-18-03 Portrait Photos that Impress
09-13-03 Flash and Action (Flash Freeze)
09-06-03 Using Depth of Field
08-23-03 Low Light Campfire Photos
08-15-03 Chasing Lightning
08-14-03 Fabulous Flowers
08-09-03 Macro Photos & Framing
07-10-03 Flash Photos Done Right
07-10-03 Sunset Techniques
06-28-03 Detail & Mystery at Dusk
06-21-03 Moon Shot Hints
06-14-03 Mountain Prospects
06-12-03 Sunny Day Techniques
06-12-03 Portraits on Father's Day
05-31-03 Beating Background Noise
05-24-03 Landscapes and Scale
05-17-03 Panning for Action
05-15-03 Falling Light & Texture
05-15-03 Tough Focusing I
05-10-03 Light and Contrast
04-26-03 Lighting Scenarios and Effects
04-19-03 Maximize Digital Photo Colors
04-10-03 Pre-Focus and Moving Subjects
03-29-03 Alternative Landscapes: 5 Ideas
03-22-03 Window Tableaux
03-15-03 Shooting for Slide Shows I: Action Sequences
03-08-03 Fixing Indoor Light with White Balance
03-01-03 Watch Those Windows
02-22-03 Meditations II – Translucence
02-15-03 Why Zoom? Four Good Reasons
02-08-03 Pictures of Your Valentine
02-02-03 What's Your Angle?
01-25-03 Capturing Sunsets
01-23-03 Foreground and Lines
01-18-03 Don't Forget Those Legs
01-11-03 Meditations I: Close-Ups in Three Layers
12-07-02 Holiday Posed Portraits: Steps to Success
11-30-02 Successful Snow Shots
11-30-02 The Art of Sunstars
11-28-02 Color Filters
11-23-02 Aperture: Light and Focus
11-16-02 Rainy Days
11-09-02 Long Exposures -- The Art of Blur
11-02-02 Festive Photos I – Preparing for Group Shots
10-26-02 Low Light Experiments
10-24-02 Intrepid Hiking Photos
10-19-02 Cool Action
10-05-02 Bug Portraits
09-24-02 Sports Photos – The Defining Moment
09-14-02 Silhouettes
09-07-31Architecture I: Perspective and Color
08-31-02 Fill Flash and Range
08-29-02 Pet Portraits
08-24-02 Landscapes in Context
08-17-02 Cool Macro
08-10-02 Lock and Shoot
08-03-02 Country Roads
07-28-02 Water Photography III – Morning Steam
07-25-02 Water Photography II – Reflections
07-20-02 Water Photography – At the Beach
07-11-02 Bright Light III – EV Compensation
07-06-02 Bright Light II – Sunny Day Backgrounds
06-29-02 Indoor Natural Light II
06-26-02 Indoor Natural Light
06-15-02 Landscapes in Perspective
06-08-02 Resolution for Digital Prints
05-25-02 Balance Colors
05-23-02 Wildlife Photography
05-18-02 Grad Photos
05-11-02 Campfires
05-04-02 Sports Event Photos
04-27-02 Hiking Photography
04-25-02 Kids' Photos
04-20-02 Blue Skies
04-13-02 Sunstars
04-06-02 Tricking Your Camera
03-30-02 Bright Light
03-23-02 Exposure Locking
03-16-02 Perspective
03-08-02 Bracketing
02-28-02 Candid Photography
02-26-02 Couples Portraits
02-22-02 Shooting The Moon
02-16-02 Double Exposure
02-09-02 Flash-Freezing Action
02-02-02 Close-Ups
01-28-02 Snow
01-26-02 Using Lines
01-19-02 Fog
01-12-02 Silhouettes
01-05-02 Travelling with Your Camera
12-30-01 Color Balance
12-22-01 Available Light
12-20-01 Sharing Your Photos
12-15-01 Pets
12-08-01 Color Filters
12-01-01 Rainy Days
11-29-01 Indoor Flash
11-24-01 Architecture
11-17-01 Zooming
11-10-01 Sunsets
11-03-01 Fill Flash
10-27-01 Viewfinders
10-27-01 Focusing
10-27-01 Choosing the Background
10-25-01 Night Photography
10-17-01 AutoFocus
10-13-01 Landscapes
10-04 -01 Direction of Light
09-28-01 Choosing the Right Film
09-27-01 Long Exposures
09-22-01 Shooting Fall Colors
09-07-01 Photographing Children
08-30-01 Night Shots
08-24-01 Polarizing Filters
08-23-01 Scale
08-16-01 Depth of Field
08-09-01 Summer Portraits
07-25-01 Digital ISO Settings
07-21-01 Panning
06-23-01 The Rule of Thirds
04-19-01 Natural Framing
03-14-01 Portraits - Simple Tips
02-08-01 Moving Subjects
02-07-01 Film vs. Digital

Get it while it's hot before ACDC decides they should start charging you $ for the priviledge.
http://www.acdsystems.com/english/co...otips/archives

That pretty much sums it up Terra. To simplify that a bit.... My Canon for example has 3 options for light meter...

Evaluative (Auto) which "divides the image into several zones for light metering. The camera evaluates the complex lighting conditions" by refering to a preloaded database of refrence if I'm not mistaken.

Center-Weighted Averaging which averages the exposure from the entire image, but places more weight on the center of the image

And Spot Meter, which has a couple of options on mine, but essentially it allows me to meter on whatever is in the center target brackets, then recompose the shot after locking the exposure. Pressing the shutter half way will lock the exposure but also the focus, so I can opt to use the specific 'exposure lock' button which will let me take my finger off the shutter and both recompose and refocus the shot. There's a few different options to accomplish the same basic objective.

It's really just a quick way to get the exposure I want. For example, I might target the bright sky background in a couple of different spots, lock the exposure when I get what I'm after, and then recompose to frame up the silhouetted subject and foreground.

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^^ Go Vertical ! ^^

Wow! Great information. Thanks very much folks! Looks like I'm going to have to start doing a bit more experimenting, starting this weekend.

PB

A few of my tips:
- with most automatic cameras, if you push the shutter button half-way it sets and locks the focus and exposure. I select a backgound with a representative brightness and distance, press half-way (wait for the indicator), frame the picture (while holding the button), and then press all the way.

- some cameras offer "exposure compensation" so you can set the camera to over/under expose by a set amount while in automatic mode. I use that in snow.

- some cameras offer automatic fill-flash and will fire the flash when large variation in brightness is detected. I leave it on all the time.

- some cameras offers "exposure bracketing" and will take 3 pictures instead of one. One is under exposed, one is normal and one is over exposed. "Digital film" is free so why not.