Mt. Spetch and Mt. Hartzell, solo via Matier Icefalls - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

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post #16 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Nice trip and hopefully CT will pick up once the weather gets better. 2:30am start I'm kinda glad I didn't join you , but would have liked to tick those last 2 off as well.
Hope the weather gets better. It's that time of a year again when some spring objectives are getting thrown around.

Last year's will be hard to beat though. In 1 month from March 17 to April 17,
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 03:12 AM
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In case any beginner reading this, whatever my style is doens't mean you should practice the same. Do your own learning and trained, and use your own judgement.
I'm glad you said this and also put on your website; because these days you just don't know, Internet is public and someone is guaranteed to think 'ya, I can do it too'.

As for roping I am all for safety, but at some point you also look at person; I know what kind of things Steven did in Rockies & if he didn't think he needed a rope, that is just plain experience. Yes, this could be dangerous approach, but at the end everyone is responsible for his own safety

Climb on my friend
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 12:12 PM
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Lots to discuss here....

First of all, believe me, I'm all for personal choice, freedom, and responsibility. I really don't care what people do in the mountains or in general, as long as it's not actually or potentially hurting others.

CT and personal blogs are in the public domain, and therefore the things people post are open to both positive and negative scrutiny. People should expect to be asked tough questions on occasion. If one is not comfortable with that or does not think that is right, he/she should keep experiences in a diary tucked safely under a pillow. Personally, I think there is a place on CT to discuss safety in the mountains. Steve was asked how he keeps safe on a glacier, and what he would do if he fell in a crevasse while by himself. He did not answer this question, other than to say he carries basic gear and a Delorme, and that it's "my choice, don't do what I do". Further, he noted that he sees lots of other people not "on leash". Honestly, it was pretty much the answer I expected.

Fine... It's his choice, we all agree. People solo hike and climb all the time. It's not new. Apparently some guy soloed all the Rockies 11,000's.

What mainly stood out to me, though, is his suggestion that ropes aren't even necessary. He climbs Garibaldi with others and they don't really consider bringing a rope. Take a look in Alpine Select (p.182? - don't have it on me) of the potential hazards below the coastal "cement" around Mt Garibaldi. Unlike Zeljkok's comment of praise, to go out with friends on a glacier and not bring a rope and other safety gear is not a sign of experience and knowledge, but of laziness and ignorance. It's akin to not bothering to bring avi gear when traveling through avi terrain. Bring the gear, even if ratings are "low". It's the right thing to do.

Indeed, climb on friends. And when you get to the top, keep climbing.

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post #19 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 12:37 PM
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I've no idea if StevenSong's approach is optimal or not, but I sure enjoy his TR's on places I will never access. Maybe this thread should get fired up on the mountaineering, scrambling, climbing section? I'm no climber but these discussions and issues of mountaineering/glacier travel safety and technique are very interesting. The discussion alone is a valuable part of the CT knowledge base
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Lots to discuss here....

Unlike Zeljkok's comment of praise, to go out with friends on a glacier and not bring a rope and other safety gear is not a sign of experience and knowledge, but of laziness and ignorance.
Clearly different individuals have different opinions on this topic..
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 01:38 PM
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Yea, I remember few other security discussions here too; at the end it only deteriorates and drags post in wrong direction. One thing that is in common though -- big part of all ultra "expert" criticism comes from envy of not being able to do certain things, not safety concerns.

My view is that life is safety risk. The other day some stoned kid went 80km/hour through red traffic lights in 30km/hour zone flipping lanes and almost knocking off couple of pedestrians. People walk into shopping malls and some hooded lunatic starts shooting around. List goes on. Maybe we should stop driving and wear bullet proof vests every time we go out? If you are afraid all the time you are not living

One example from Rockies: Castleguard Meadows -- can do in a day, but need 3-4 km glacier travel. lobo did it almost casually by himself couple of times. I didn't because being unroped on glacier on my own is above my comfort zone. Bottom line: we are both alive, he has seen Castleguard Meadows, I haven't.

Don't take unnecessary risks but use your own judgement because it is your neck on the line after all.

Last edited by zeljkok; 03-03-2017 at 01:57 PM.
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 03:25 PM
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Clearly different individuals have different opinions on this topic..
Indeed. You're an intelligent and passionate guy, and that's why some of your statements baffle me.
@zeljkok - don't pretend to know what people envy. "You're just jealous" is just a cop out.
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 05:41 PM
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A few weeks back i posted a thread on Why solo hike? Hikers like "outdoors guy" and "zeljkok" proffered up some decent wisdom like "Overwhelming support for "hike alone" concept is quite interesting. When this thread first popped up I expected quite the opposite; 'security experts' voicing displeasure etc. Times are changing."

I'm not a solo guy for the most part, ultimately, it is up to the individual to hike to wherever and with or without adequate gear or gear others may choose to always have. If the solo persons actions don't affect anyone other than themselves, likely its fine by most. It is by me. Ultimately, solo travel in the backcountry reaches beyond this scope though, either should they get injured and require others to risk injury to get them or should they die, having loved ones asking why did they travel solo? Applaud yourself as you wish about Inreaches and SPOTS being with you at all times, but in the elements where in "unfun situations" time is of the essence, nothing better than a good rope and a partner on the other end pulling on it!

Last edited by grousegrinder; 03-06-2017 at 05:42 PM. Reason: grammar
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post #24 of (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 06:10 PM
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in the elements where in "unfun situations" time is of the essence, nothing better than a good rope and a partner on the other end pulling on it!
Absolutely. There is no debate whether hiking in a group, or being roped, or ... is safer or not. There are many examples of top notch climbers that perished while attempting routes alone (one of most notable being Tobin Sorenson on Mt. Alberta North Face)

But at the end only you are responsible for your own fate. Not internet, not friends opinion, not this or that. Only you. Some climb 5.8 on their own, some are afraid to walk out of their own yard because well, who knows what kind of danger awaits beyond the safety of their 4 walls; maybe the neighbor dog will jump out and bite them? Some people feel limited in a group and are willing to take higher risk in trade for freedom. Some prefer the cushion of others, even if that can sometimes increase the risk, ie. rockfall etc. Some over rely on technology and think it will get them out of any kind of trouble, while some refuse to use even GPS which can be super beneficial in certain conditions. There is no absolute right or wrong, it is all individual.
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post #25 of (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 07:10 PM
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Great report, and awesome photos. love your style


K

Hiking is what keeps you young of mind and heart. When the going gets tough, the tough get going..............
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