Paranoid Creek Bridge Decommission - Page 3 - ClubTread Community

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post #31 of (permalink) Old 10-10-2015, 04:44 AM Thread Starter
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I was wondering before, but now even more so what kind of people Ministry of Forestry especially hires. I listened to a story in university from someone in forestry about how they were downsizing so someone in the ministry got one of the guys to drive all around the province handing out pink slips, then when he got back to his own desk a few days later he found a pink slip on his own desk, and took it in the worse way possible...to put it nicely.

Ministry of Forests seems dark, sounds like BC Parks is too. What type of people are in the executive boards/major decision making roles? Business degree people and accountants or people who enjoy the outdoors?
To partially answer your question, they have hired a lot of ex-RCMP officers as of late in the Ministry of Forests who have already accrued full retirement/pension benefits in their previous jobs in law enforcement. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me, this double and even triple dipping stuff.

Last edited by junglesavage; 10-10-2015 at 04:51 AM.
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post #32 of (permalink) Old 10-10-2015, 04:53 AM
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To partially answer your question, they have hired a lot of ex-RCMP officers as of late in the Ministry of Forests
It all makes sense now...
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post #33 of (permalink) Old 10-10-2015, 01:17 PM
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I don't believe for a moment that the powers that be believe that "free" access to the outdoors is the future, unless of course, one is a corporation with all the bells and whistles...would love to be proven wrong on this account, however...
The implications of this are disturbing to dirt bags but music to the ears of commercial interests. Fortunately, the dirt bags are more numerous so they can't be disregarded out of hand. It doesn't say they can't be out-maneuvered.

Here is a likely scenario and one that is playing out, I suspect, in the Spearhead. The Spearhead hut committee gets approval for three backcountry huts. Good, so far. Parks then sets unreasonable standards for hut construction that escalates the costs from the initial estimate of $300,000 per hut to $1,000,000 per hut. It's a stretch for any volunteer group to come up with $3 million let alone $1 million. No longer a simple backcountry hut. More a chalet now. Enter an investor with deep pockets and close ties to the ski industry. Said investor bankrolls the first hut but with condition that W-B manage the facility. Obviously, the project does not go through unless the condition is met. Domino effect takes place for huts 2 and 3 and before you know it, the Spearhead traverse is a commercial operation controlled at both ends by a ski hill and commercially compliant parks. Big bonuses all round for the mandarins because that is what they negotiated for behind closed doors at the outset - sell out Garibaldi Park for commercial interests. Wasn't it done with Sea to Sky gondola? It benefits ski hills, heli-skiers and foreign tourists with lots of $. Losers are dirt bags, however, they played an essential role as dupes to get the project approved. Development and jobs friendly gov't is laughing too.
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Last edited by Stoked; 10-10-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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post #34 of (permalink) Old 10-12-2015, 11:11 PM
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Here is a likely scenario and one that is playing out, I suspect, in the Spearhead. The Spearhead hut committee gets approval for three backcountry huts. Good, so far. Parks then sets unreasonable standards for hut construction that escalates the costs from the initial estimate of $300,000 per hut to $1,000,000 per hut. It's a stretch for any volunteer group to come up with $3 million let alone $1 million. No longer a simple backcountry hut. More a chalet now. Enter an investor with deep pockets and close ties to the ski industry. Said investor bankrolls the first hut but with condition that W-B manage the facility. Obviously, the project does not go through unless the condition is met. Domino effect takes place for huts 2 and 3 and before you know it, the Spearhead traverse is a commercial operation controlled at both ends by a ski hill and commercially compliant parks. Big bonuses all round for the mandarins because that is what they negotiated for behind closed doors at the outset - sell out Garibaldi Park for commercial interests. Wasn't it done with Sea to Sky gondola? It benefits ski hills, heli-skiers and foreign tourists with lots of $. Losers are dirt bags, however, they played an essential role as dupes to get the project approved. Development and jobs friendly gov't is laughing too.
That would be my concern as well. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch at times...

Fun is where you make it...
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post #35 of (permalink) Old 10-13-2015, 03:40 AM
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This is why I tend to avoid Whister. It's a nice enough place, but very developed, and makes me feel guilty for overspending every time.

To be fair, the vast majority of BC is very rugged, and not very good place for "foreign tourists with lots of $", so I don't really mind ventures like those.
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post #36 of (permalink) Old 10-13-2015, 01:14 PM
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Quite an informative thread. Thanks everyone. I truly appreciate the work done on the various trails. It's sad that responsible organizations are getting shafted this time. Seems to me rogue trail building would be more damaging.
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Also, the future of BC is, to a large extent, going to be tourism and free access to the outdoors.
This made me think of some people I've met. The "dirtbag climbers" who come to live in Squamish for 5-6 months of the summer, spending their well paid tech-job monies on rent, food and gear, supporting the local community. Putting up barriers to keep them out doesn't seem forward thinking to me at all. But yeah, corporate interests don't give a crap about that. They want the big bucks.

Last edited by guntis; 10-13-2015 at 01:19 PM. Reason: Corporations - the real dirtbags
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post #37 of (permalink) Old 10-13-2015, 02:05 PM
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how's the winter access , is the bridge required to cross?
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post #38 of (permalink) Old 10-13-2015, 05:14 PM
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I'm not sure, but based on the maps I've seen, the bridge is around 1000m elevation, so it should be fine as long as we get a proper winter.
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post #39 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 01:59 AM
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Even with the hand-line removed, it is still relatively easy to cross the creek. You will just have to shimmy across the log instead of walking on it. Don't let this discourage you from using the trail!

If people continue to use the trail and spread the word it may help support the case to get the trail officially sanctioned. Besides, if enough people are using the trail on a regular basis it won't really matter if the bureaucrats rubber-stamp it or not.

Also please continue to share any trip reports using the new trail. Others may see your report and be inspired to go check it out for themselves.
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post #40 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mj24 View Post
Even with the hand-line removed, it is still relatively easy to cross the creek. You will just have to shimmy across the log instead of walking on it. Don't let this discourage you from using the trail!

If people continue to use the trail and spread the word it may help support the case to get the trail officially sanctioned. Besides, if enough people are using the trail on a regular basis it won't really matter if the bureaucrats rubber-stamp it or not.

Also please continue to share any trip reports using the new trail. Others may see your report and be inspired to go check it out for themselves.
Can you share any info? Perhaps GPS coordinates of the trailhead?
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post #41 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 10:11 AM
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Can you share any info? Perhaps GPS coordinates of the trailhead?
Bivouac is your best bet. Lots of gps coordinates there. Trip reports and trails. Search on keywords Darling, Manic or Mamquam. Download and upload coordinates.

49.75201,-122.93461=Park Car at Gate parking area 800m (2625')
49.75483,-122.93295=Skookum Dam
49.76228,-122.92550=End of lower road on map
49.76172,-122.92514=End of lower road, start connexctor trail
49.76087,-122.92205=Hit the upper road 915m (3002')
49.76153,-122.92102=Turn right onto eastmost road (ignore left branch)
49.76829,-122.91439=End of old "East" Road (Spur S2) 980m (3215')
49.76789,-122.91175=log across Paranoid Creek 1020m (3346')
49.77136,-122.88866=down to outlet stream 1600m (5249')
49.77065,-122.88813=*Camp on W side of Darling lake 1600m (5249')
49.76828,-122.88890=On crest of ridge 1720m (5643')
49.76274,-122.88219=Main West summit of Manic Peak 1959m (6427')
49.76253,-122.87845=East Summit
49.77118,-122.88798=Back at stream outlet, near camp 1620m (5315')
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post #42 of (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 12:41 PM
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Is the road 2wd accessible?
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post #43 of (permalink) Old 10-15-2015, 12:51 AM
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Thanks stoked!
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post #44 of (permalink) Old 10-15-2015, 01:23 AM
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I would recommend a 4WD vehicle for the road, although a powerful rear-wheel drive truck with a bit of clearance would also make it no problem. Subarus that have a bit higher clearance should also be fine. There are a few short steep hills that would be difficult for a front-wheel drive vehicle to get up, and also one or two small waterbars shortly before the parking area.

All that being said, we saw an old Toyota minivan at the trailhead this summer so it all depends on how hard you're willing to push your vehicle
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post #45 of (permalink) Old 10-15-2015, 11:24 PM
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Quote from Beverley McLachlin, Supreme Court Justice in 1998,

"societies governed by the rule of law are marked by a certain ethos of justification ... an exercise of public power is only appropriate where it can be justified to citizens in terms of rationality and fairness."
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