Rubble Ck/Black Tusk parking - smash and grab - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

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post #16 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 07:47 PM
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All you can do really is write letters and protect yourself.

I really encourage people without alarms to ad a bright blinking LED light. Cost < $10

I also encourage a discretely placed dashcam. Cost <$50 + micro SD card.

( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 03:46 AM
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the next 2 weekends will be seeing pressure and hits on those areas, keep your stuff out of sight and secured.
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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I was loathe to even start this thread, seeing as we've been over this so many times on CT. However, these break-ins are such a violation it just seems we should keep the topic front and center until there is some resolution.

There are solutions to these matters but all cost money. I would say though, that the cost of a remedy is less than the economic losses that will ensue from a damaged reputation should this nonsense continue.

Emailing the MLA, local councils and even newspapers in Squamish/Whistler could be time well spent in getting the word out.
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 02:31 PM
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Involve Sea to Sky parks ( http://seatoskyparks.com/ ) as well, as the PFO they have a lot at stake here, and are well positioned to liase with the police on the problem. They could install and monitor the cameras and call in the police when needed.

On a similar earlier thread I suggested that a just a simple microphone would be an excellent monitor, cheaper smaller easier to conceal, passive listening would require far less battery power than video, less bandwidth to transmit, car alarms are distinctive enough that it could be monitored by a computer only alerting to an human with the sound of an alarm. Possibly activating the cameras as well.
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 02:07 AM
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its just too bad that old school methods arent acceptable any more. 20-30 years years ago, or more, when we used to crush peoples fingers or break arms and other bones along with a severe beating and it would end such non sense in many cases. and no one cared or gave you any issues over it.


Now many of the these thieves are addicted to chemical drugs that fuel no fear and desperation and have little re hab and a beating or being jailed has no effect whatsoever. We now have the modern, adapted and protected repeat offender... I guess leg hold traps and tossing them over a cliff are out of the question also?!!


Not sure what the answer is, throwing money at they problem or vigilantism.??
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 12:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Aqua Terra;615209]its just too bad that old school methods arent acceptable any more. 20-30 years years ago, or more, when we used to crush peoples fingers or break arms and other bones along with a severe beating and it would end such non sense in many cases. and no one cared or gave you any issues over it.


Now many of the these thieves are addicted to chemical drugs that fuel no fear and desperation and have little re hab and a beating or being jailed has no effect whatsoever. We now have the modern, adapted and protected repeat offender... I guess leg hold traps and tossing them over a cliff are out of the question also?!!


Not sure what the answer is, throwing money at they problem or vigilantism.??[/QU


LOL, you and I remember the 1980's - 90's differently, maybe you mean the 1890's?

Scott
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 12:46 PM
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one deterrent is to not leave anything of even minor value in the vehicle. it I surprising to see how much some people leave in their backseats of value (it doesn't take much - just one cd, a jacket, a bag - to invite thieves). of course, if these folks are simply smashing windows for "fun" this won't help.
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allthebestnamesweretaken View Post
Now many of the these thieves are addicted to chemical drugs that fuel no fear and desperation and have little re hab and a beating or being jailed has no effect whatsoever. We now have the modern, adapted and protected repeat offender... I guess leg hold traps and tossing them over a cliff are out of the question also?!!
Scott
If this is the reason, then times have sure changed. I remember hiking fairly regularly in Garibaldi Park in the 1970's and 1980's; breakins and vandalism was unheard of.
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post #24 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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If this is the reason, then times have sure changed. I remember hiking fairly regularly in Garibaldi Park in the 1970's and 1980's; breakins and vandalism was unheard of.
My first hike up into the Black Tusk area was around 1975 when the mountains of the Highway 99 corridor were the domain of those who could cobble together outdoor gear from 3-Vets in Vancouver. Does anybody remember Dougald MacDougall's trail book?

There were a lot less people hacking up and down the trails then and nobody seemed to worry about leaving a car at a trailhead. It's just a shame that a few vandals sully the experience for us all.

Still, I'm glad to see so many more people out in our mountains enjoying these great natural gifts.

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post #25 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 02:02 PM
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[quote=Allthebestnamesweretaken;615273]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Terra View Post
its just too bad that old school methods arent acceptable any more. 20-30 years years ago, or more, when we used to crush peoples fingers or break arms and other bones along with a severe beating and it would end such non sense in many cases. and no one cared or gave you any issues over it.


Now many of the these thieves are addicted to chemical drugs that fuel no fear and desperation and have little re hab and a beating or being jailed has no effect whatsoever. We now have the modern, adapted and protected repeat offender... I guess leg hold traps and tossing them over a cliff are out of the question also?!!


Not sure what the answer is, throwing money at they problem or vigilantism.??[/QU


LOL, you and I remember the 1980's - 90's differently, maybe you mean the 1890's?

Scott

yeah, grew up wrong side of town with a rough crowd...
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 06:11 PM
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My first hike ever in BC was to Deeks Lakes in 1991. We arrived at the trailhead on Highway 99 and there sat a car with all windows smashed, the steering wheel ripped out and thrown to the side, back seats completely ripped out.

As we climbed up the steep trail we met the two fellows who had spent the night up at the lakes and were returning to their car - they had been told about the damage by a party ahead of us. People in my group told me that this happened frequently along the sea to sky.

A year or so later I went up to Garibaldi Lake with a friend for a long weekend, and we took a bus so as to not worry about trailhead shenanigans.

Trailhead vandalism is not a new thing. It's been an issue for decades.
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post #27 of (permalink) Old 05-12-2015, 02:31 AM
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My first hike ever in BC was to Deeks Lakes in 1991. We arrived at the trailhead on Highway 99 and there sat a car with all windows smashed, the steering wheel ripped out and thrown to the side, back seats completely ripped out.

As we climbed up the steep trail we met the two fellows who had spent the night up at the lakes and were returning to their car - they had been told about the damage by a party ahead of us. People in my group told me that this happened frequently along the sea to sky.

A year or so later I went up to Garibaldi Lake with a friend for a long weekend, and we took a bus so as to not worry about trailhead shenanigans.

Trailhead vandalism is not a new thing. It's been an issue for decades.

Of course crime has been around for decades and centuries and longer, but now its changed from unuasual to common to excpected and the frequency is off the charts,,


Is it just an exponetial thing? more people out, more trail head issues?


I call BS, the now trail head vandals are different for sure. sorry for the spelling..
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post #28 of (permalink) Old 05-12-2015, 12:31 PM
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It sure is frustrating. The crux of every trip to Garibaldi Lake is now at the parking lot!

Can we coordinate with the mountain bikers who set up trail cameras? Seriously, I believe it will take a volunteer effort, as it isn't realistic to ask police to camp out at the lot.
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 05-12-2015, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by guntis View Post
I believe it will take a volunteer effort
That is exactly right.

Break-in happens, someone reports, discussion heats up, everyone is upset, etc and then it fades out. Things are calm for month or two (they watch Internet boards too and will stay away while things are "hot"). Then it happens again, over and over and over. Empty talk, writing to various authorities (I am all for it, but..) is obviously not having an effect. So if something is to be done, it must be the community. I'd take it offline, seek suggestions/support of organized hiking clubs (such as North Shore Hikers perhaps), biking organizations, etc. and then implement solution. Otherwise just put up a cash box by the map at trailhead and paint in red "For thieves, help yourself but please leave my car alone" then everyone who passes chip in a 20.
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post #30 of (permalink) Old 05-12-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zeljkok View Post
That is exactly right.

Break-in happens, someone reports, discussion heats up, everyone is upset, etc and then it fades out. Things are calm for month or two (they watch Internet boards too and will stay away while things are "hot"). Then it happens again, over and over and over. Empty talk, writing to various authorities (I am all for it, but..) is obviously not having an effect. So if something is to be done, it must be the community. I'd take it offline, seek suggestions/support of organized hiking clubs (such as North Shore Hikers perhaps), biking organizations, etc. and then implement solution. Otherwise just put up a cash box by the map at trailhead and paint in red "For thieves, help yourself but please leave my car alone" then everyone who passes chip in a 20.

I hear what you are saying but I see it differently.

I don't know who these thieves are but I'm going to assume they have knives and maybe guns. They may also be under the influence of drugs or alcohol when they are committing their crime. Any kind of a stake-out or direct confrontation is completely out of the question for me for safety reasons alone. If a volunteer were to arm themselves to be prepared for a conflict then they would be putting themselves at serious risk of ending up in prison. I've tried thinking through various approaches (could you hide in the bushes and have someone lock the gate once the crime is committed, etc.) and none of them end well.

Trail cams worked for the case in North Vancouver but I suspect the following: They already has a suspicion about who was doing it. The crime was being committed during the day. They were able to put the camera beside a trail so they could get close-up pictures, etc..
Setting up a trail cam for the parking lots would be more problematic. It would pick up hundreds of pictures of innocent people (and would the volunteer be putting themselves at risk of a lawsuit by performing covert surveillance in a public place?) Pictures of the subjects at night would likely just be a bunch of people in hoodies. It would be very hard to position the camera on the side of the road in such a way that it would be unseen but still capture license plates.

On the other hand, the official agencies can get around all of these problems. A cop can perform a stake-out or use a bait car or bait property (which have been very successfully used in downtown Vancouver,) and can apprehend the suspect safely and without breaking any laws. The park can set up a camera system that does not have to be hidden. etc.

I'm all for volunteers contributing to their community. Trailwork is a great example of where that can work. Crime enforcement is a lot more tricky. We pay a lot of taxes and I think that we are proposing some fairly basic and affordable steps that would dramatically increase the security at the trailheads. I don't think that we have applied nearly enough pressure to give up on the official routes just yet.


Here is one possibility: Volunteers could sign up to camp at the trailhead on weekends. It wouldn't be a stake-out. They would have a clearly signed area indicating that they are the "parking lot host". One challenge is that camping is illegal at Rubble Creek due to the Barrier so an exception would have to be provided (is that right?) Another challenge is that it wouldn't catch the criminals - it would just deter them and move them to another trailhead.
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