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post #31 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 03:52 PM
 
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Did you go to the presentation on it last night, sourdough?
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post #32 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 04:25 PM
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I read the thread on "2004 wish-hikes" and it's pretty plain to see that there are more than enough hiking trails (easy or difficult, local or otherwise), to keep the masses satisfied for years to come. We probably don't need any more new trails in the area.

However (and I know this point was brought up already), the environmental impact, which from reading the thread seems comparitively minimal, is outweighed by the environmental awareness created by local hikes. Anyone who attempts to do a trail such as this will appreciate how intertwined we really are with natural habitats. My personal opinion is, ultimately, the pros outweigh the cons, at least in this case.


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post #33 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 05:05 PM
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who are you, gingsengjoe, to think you can refer to all of us as 'the masses'? you're part of this Club, too, you know - given your own postings here.

I'm amazed at the emotions in this thread. Sourdough - do you know where this trail is located? Are you aware that most people will not even be able to reach either trailhead of this loop? That Third Peak of Seymour, and Dilly Dally plateau are outside of the reach of your run of the mill hiker? That the way into the trail, from the upper reach of Indian Arm, is a looong kayak ride from Deep Cove, or an even longer (and bumpier) mountain bike ride from Squamish?

C'mon - find something else to grouse about. This trail will never achieve the popularity of the Grouse Grind, or of Buntzen Lake.





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post #34 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by seawallrunner


Sourdough - do you know where this trail is located? Are you aware that most people will not even be able to reach either trailhead of this loop? That Third Peak of Seymour, and Dilly Dally plateau are outside of the reach of your run of the mill hiker? That the way into the trail, from the upper reach of Indian Arm, is a looong kayak ride from Deep Cove, or an even longer (and bumpier) mountain bike ride from Squamish?

C'mon - find something else to grouse about. This trail will never achieve the popularity of the Grouse Grind, or of Buntzen Lake.



...That and generally Grouse or Buntzen do not require the gear, experience or endrance that one would need on a trip of this calibre. I'd like to think that those who would have the skill and gear requirements to successfully attempt this trail would already be well aware of minimizing their impact on the area.

Well said![^]

I took one look at that Eco-spirit TR and said "Wow, good for you, but not for me." There are too many other well established trails the showcase the beauty of BC. If I want to head up the Indian arm I will do so via Kayak, not because I agree or disagree with the construction of the trail but because I'm being realistic about my own capabilities and limitations.

Considering that I see a great many people "tackling" Buntzen and the Grind in cotton, runners, and carrying Evian water bottles, I'm willing to stick my neck out and hazzard a guess that the majority would be ill prepared to even consider the Indian Arm.

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post #35 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Seawall, I never thought or claimed that the trail would come anywhere near the popularity of Buntzen Lake or the Grouse Grind so I'm not sure where you got that from At its current state it may not be too accessible but the trail is in its infant stages right now. Who knows who may decide to make it more accessible etc.

I'm in the middle of exams so, no, I did not go to the presentation. Did anyone else go? I would love to hear about it.
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post #36 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 09:23 PM
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funny... the comment about evian water bottles, well least theyre carrying water!!
as for runners, well someone in my group was wearing trail runners, and to be honest, I have done the grind many a time in my runners, Id hate to think someone would judge me unfit for an overnighter based on what I wear on the grind
buntzen same thing, Id be just as comfy wearing runners there also.
Personally I dont see this trail becoming the next grind or buntzen, a lot of ppl I see around those areas look more like tourists, and i say look based on their clothing and chatter, Ive talked to them on many occasions and yes indeed they are tourists who have heard of these places and just wish to have the experience, hats off to them for trying.I just hate to see ppl judged on their abilities based upon what they wear, and oh yeah, one person was wearing cotton, and was comfy!!!!
Ive been watching this thread for a while now, its a heated debate, maybe we should lighten up a little, stop worrying about what 'could' happen to this area, after all, the trail has been built, like many others have already, and enjoy and respect it the same as we would any other trail, and endeavour to educate those ppl new to hiking. Instead of criticising each other, saying what is right and what is wrong, after all, hiking and what we use on the trails is a very personal thing.
Lets remember we are here to share our experiences, good and bad, and we can all benefit from what is posted on this site, we all share a common interest, a passion for the outdoors.
I dont think anyone is out to 'vandalise' an area, but rather create an opportunity for those brave enough to try, to experience a more remote area than the typical popular trails, for that Im thankful the opportunity is there, even if I dont take up on it.
Lets not judge who is doing right or wrong, but share so we can all learn.
one last thing, sourdough, as much as you have criticised Don for building this trail, I somehow dont think that would stop you from hiking it... and then what do you have to say????
Ive had my say, thankyou for listening
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post #37 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 09:31 PM
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I wasn't there last night but I did attend the first presentation,Sourdough.If you have any specific questions to ask,I'm willing to try to address them.I'd have to agree with what many have said in that the trail is difficult to access,and trekking it is a very athletic endeavour to say the least.As an experienced trail runner,my thought is that the average person might not be able to handle the demands of the terrain.Though the route is marked roughly,there are many technical challenges to be met.It makes the West Coast Trail look like a Sunday brunch.Don's trail building style,like that of Lunden or Binkert,is very efficient .He believes in using natural features and doesn't cut switchbacks or level forest trees.If you ever chance to meet him you'll be impressed by his honesty and love of the woods.I look forward to checking out his work someday
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post #38 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 10:28 PM
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IMHO.... Me thinks' Its a good thing, How many of you know someone who have done it? and it's been around fer a year now!.. What one? two people? ... Somehow i doubt it will ever reach the popularity of WCT, or other week hikes... Do i plan on doing the indian arm trail? Yes, Do i plan on doing the WCT? ... Yes... (going june 21-) they moderate the WCT for a reason, to prevent Ecological problems... would we have to moderate the Indian arm trail??? Definitly not for now.. Considering the WCT has twice as many people in an hour embarking, compared to the I.A.T. ... Carpe Diem... Seize the day? woudn't that be a thought? Play nice kiddies...


Maybe i'm just young and naive?

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post #39 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2004, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well, I guess I'll take your word for it. My initial intent for this thread was to generate some discussion about this, so I guess it was a success! It sounds like most of you are very responsible hikers and I agree that we should all help educate others and keep these issues in mind. I still don't know if I can condone anyone to take such responsibilities upon themselves but now that its done, I'm sure you all will treat it with respect. I really think its important to keep these things in mind and its always good to keep discussing topics like this me thinks.
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post #40 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 06:24 PM
 
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Jumping in well after the due date, however I noted no reference to this point in any of the previous posts on this subject. I had heard that because much of Indian Arm falls under treaty lands presently under negotion in the BC land claims process, that it was requested the trail be 'decommissioned' so to speak, or at least any further promotion of or information on it cease and desist while land claims negotiotions are underway. I got this news second-hand, so not sure how accurate it is.

One final comment, I disagree with Shadee requesting people 'cool it' and not get so worked up about land use issues like this. To the contrary, that kind of attitude might have been okay 40 or 50 or even 100 years ago when they were such a miniscule number of us by comparison. But today that kind of attitude does not fly. Land use issues must be discussed and if in a heated and opinionated manner, so be it. They are just way too many of us now and far too many of us encroaching now on every last scrap of uncharted or previously unused portions of wilderness not to discuss this in challenging and even perhaps provocative ways.

To say no one, or hardly anyone will ever use this new Indian Arm trail is short-sighted to say the least. But that would generally be in keeping with the human species' modus operandi in everything the species tends to take on or create. I agree with sourdough, there is cause for concern in this instance and think he is correct in his discussions of his concerns. In doing so, this is no way detracts from, criticizes, or negates Mr. McPherson's accomplishment. It is only to ask, okay, we've built it, now what?

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post #41 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 07:25 PM
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The very nature of this trail almost does guarantee limited use- it is a certified torture test to be sure. However, as time goes on , many changes may have to be made regarding the trail and its use.There's no reason not to keep an open discussion on the topic alive.
As land claims take forever to process, use of the trail is obviously going to continue one way or another. To remain informed and to make the right decisions , debate on the topic is very important.
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post #42 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 07:34 PM
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Just read this thread for the first time. I apologize if this has allready been stated. Part of our trip to Bishop was I beleive on the IAR. Tress were not ripped out. That is as large an overstatment as I have ever heard. Some small brush cut back in very limited areas was about the extend of deforestation I saw. The rest of the route was marked simply with flagging and very unobtrusive. I really don't think it's anything to get uptight about.
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post #43 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 07:51 PM
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Good point, Jeff, Don did not hack trees down and the trail is routed for minimal erosion. When he builds trails all important factors are considered.
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post #44 of (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 08:02 PM
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Neat discussion.

A couple of things - yes, one of the most serious knocks on the building of this trail is that it crossed First Nations' land (Tsleil-Watuth or Burrard Band?) without permission. I don't disagree with our rights to tromp about on Crown land at our own discression etc., but that doesn't apply to reserve land, protected watersheds or other properties. To me, this is one issue where the builder definitely did not use "best practices" and do no harm. That bit's not cool.

Also, the assumptions about it being an out-of-reach trail so that only experienced, competent hikers will go there is a bit risky. Even if that's true today, if it continues to appear on websites and magazines (it was in Explore) etc., it will attract users who are less responsible, conscientious and prepared. As well as potential impacts to the ecosystem (which I personally don't expect to be a big deal - hopefully the builder knew these things), there is the potential for underprepared hikers to try this relatively nearby epic and get into serious trouble. I wonder what NS SAR thinks about it, or will think about it in 30 years?

Either way, it'll all work out. These issues will get managed as needed over time: maybe it will become a famous trail, maybe it will fade away or be closed. Good for the builder that he went for it; but he has to expect to take his lumps for not seeking permission from landowners, and for peoples' legitimate concerns about water quality, wildlife impacts and safety.

What he did may prove to be good, but there shouldn't be much debate that it was wrong... kinda like the teacher's strike.

Pat.


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post #45 of (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ya I really hope nothing comes of this and that the trail is not heavily used, but I'm guessing at one point many of the trails that we commonly use were once very rugged and torturous before they became manicured trails that became heavily used. I'm not saying that is going to happen here, but the possibility is there esp. with all of the publicity.
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