Good diet for extreme hiking in tropcial regions - ClubTread Community

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post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
Scaling New Heights
 
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Default Good diet for extreme hiking in tropcial regions

to start, I am vegetarian. Not vegan, but no actual flesh (meat). I eat eggs. This is a belief thing against animal cruelty, and thus eating meat just isnt an option, sorry. I want to try and maintain a healthy diet, not extreme body builders muscle building diet, which is all i have been able to find so far.

The situation is this, for work i have a new contract to do lots of mountain stuff, but the pack can be extremely heavy, up to 60kg (not pounds). Usually it is around 30-35kg, I have done this for a few years already, the difference being i used to do it 1-3 times a week with a day+ break in between, now it will be almost everyday. I will be hiking very very extreme areas, mostly steep loose rock areas cutting through vines, and it is very tiring. Not staying overnight, and will be scrambling up and down to and from a vehicle, so access to food is easy and packing food in is not an issue. meaning it can be heavy, i do not need anything but small snacks with me, and will go back to truck to eat more meaningful mini-meals.

The big problem is diet and energy. I need lots but diet is my least advanced skill set. I am taking these tablets that are meant for dehydration/mineral reloading. the pharmacy here says they are fine to take daily, I explained i am a runner and need more than water. But i dont trust that, especially seeing as they are bright orange and bubble in water for 5 mins...seems weird. the temps range a lot, but can go up to 35C. Right now in winter its nice, only about low-mid 20s in the day, but sometimes i need to do at night as well, much cooler then but slower due to being dark and more dangerous.

I am fit enough, my body is able, but i need the proper food and am now realizing that i am VERY much not prepared to do this everyday.

Lastly, if possible describe food types, not brand names as I am in SE Asia and many brands are just not available here, but their ingredients likely are. We do have costco though!

Thanks for any tips.

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 10:26 AM
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If you are traveling to the Philippines, I recommend balut :P

Edit: some actual useful advice. My recollection is that large quantities of fluid are needed and "take it easy" attitude, especially from noon to 3pm. I'm not exactly sure where you're going because where I grew up the only time it would dip into the 20's was at night or during typhoon season.

One thing you may be able to take advantage of is that a lot of people live out in the boonies. It's not uncommon to walk along a trail to what you think is the middle of nowhere and find a little village, and often there are small stores where you can buy soda or water.

Don't get sick. There are a lot of diseases and none of them are fun. Many of them are protozoa, so not all water purification mechanisms work on them.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 03:17 PM
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You are definitely going to go through considerable water. Electrolyte (sodium/potassium) balance might be a challenge if you're sweating a lot. Most of us consume too much sodium already, so it's probably the potassium you'll need. Bananas are high in potassium. There are some other good natural sources that you can look up. And if you do need the sodium, just bring salted nuts with you. Nuts and berries are good energy sources for the trail and don't take up much space.

Because you'll be burning a lot of calories, don't be afraid of eating higher fat foods (fats are 9 calories/gram vs 4 cal/gram for protein or carbohydrates). Mmm, avocados! Eat 'em up!

Stay away from simple sugars in your foods - they'll make you crash (like white bread, candy bars etc). Complex carbohydrates allow a slower steadier energy release.

Being vegetarian isn't as great a challenge as being vegan so adequate protein will be easy (an egg or two a day plus some other sources like corn and beans, or soybeans and rice, and you're good to go).

And of course, you'll need a cold beer and massage at the end of each day
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 04:13 PM
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Sounds painful. I am living in the tropics now and, if it's not a water based activity, I get out early and finish early to avoid the brutal heat of the day. It's just too hard to carry enough water to stay properly hydrated. Obviously, that's not an option for you.

You'll get all kinds of advice, but one thing that makes a big difference to performance over time and particularly maintaining muscle mass is getting adequate protein. Athletes (and you qualify as an athlete with this job description) should be getting a gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. That's actually pretty tough on a vegetarian diet. Note that the recommendation is the actual protein not the weight of the food, so one egg has 7 grams of protein. If you could switch your metabolism over from the standard carbo crashing junkie one to burning more fat for fuel you would be able to eat less frequently and not have blood sugar swings, but it usually takes people a couple of weeks - at least - to adapt to burning either body fat, or fat you eat instead of relying on glucose.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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good to know. I am by no means a big muscle man, but i have very little body fat as i am already very active. so burning body fat wouldnt be great to rely on, ad seems like it would be only short term solution anyway. using an online calculator i am at about 8% body fat, all of which is in the "love handle" area i am thinking.

I can bring many KGs of food, i will be going back and forth to the car all day. I probably wont be away from the car for more than 4 hours, unless something happens.

unfortunately the times i cannot really change, i am doing a lot of environmental study which will include certain times of day. so i am in fact working right through the middle of the day. usually in the 8am-5pm range. but in reality its just hot after 9 anyway.

I am well prepared for disease, luckily i am working in mountain areas = no wetland/wet areas. However, i am well prepared for the environment, no worries there. Its the food intake that is worrying me.

I have new electrolyte tablets trying out, they seem to work well. but in summer i can go through 10 liters a day and still pee orange. so something needs to happen before that heat kicks in. you can literally watch the beads of sweat come from each pore, quite amazing, but i worry about that a bit.

I am 85kg, so about 190 pounds i think. so 190grams of protein a day? wow, this one is going to be tough. I think i maybe should buy vitamins?

my current diet is pretty low on processed stuff, especially lately. I am eating a lot of cooked veggies which i am finding makes me hungry fast. Also eat a lot of peanuts, 1-3 eggs a day and usually some rice. I find i dont actually need much hiking, sometimes i go out hiking for 8 hours on a single egg without feeling any ill effect, unless i skip that nights dinner then the next day i feel terrible. I know this is not something i should do, but it seems my body is quite efficient at using food energy. Or so i think.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sandy
particularly maintaining muscle mass is getting adequate protein. Athletes (and you qualify as an athlete with this job description) should be getting a gram of protein per pound of body weight per day.
I agree with Sandy's advice. I've read a lot of clinical journals on sports medicine over the years which helps me out with hiking/backpacking. I am a vegetarian also but not vegan. I don't eat meat but drink whey protein. With the work you are doing, you need to replenish glycogen stores which become depleted after 90 min of vigorous exercise. Humans usually take about 2 to 3 days to fully replenish muscle glycogen stores...compare that to a Husky Dog which takes only 24 hours to do that so don't forget about eating complex carbs because its carbs which fuel the body. Why don't you try and buy a good whey protein/carb drink or see if you can order one and have it shipped. I like Optimun Nutrition 100% Natural Oats and Whey...provides 23 g of carbs and 24 g of protein per serving. When you take it before work, your body will first utlilize the available protein/carbs and spare your muscle glycogen/protein until the exogenous source becomes depleted. As Sandy mentioned you need 1g PRO/lb body weight to prevent and restore muscle protein breakdown and put you in an anabolic state.
Drinking just plain water isn't a good idea since you will dilute out electrolytes so you need electrolytes in addition to water. Actually glutamine, creatine and glycerol (used by bodybuilders, endurance athletes) cause hyperhydration and will limit dehydration.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
quote:I am 85kg, so about 190 pounds i think. so 190grams of protein a day? wow, this one is going to be tough. I think i maybe should buy vitamins?
Vitamin supplementation will not help with a lack of protein.
Also, you will piss out most of them before you can metabolize them.
Good way to waste a lot of money.

Maybe you should look at TVP (textured vegetable protein). I know you can get it in a jerky-like form.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 07:41 PM
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I would guess that your current food intake just increased proportional to the number of calories you're using will be fine. The foods you're eating right now are very easy to find in SE Asia, and I think macro balance is fine (though I'm no scientist).

Regarding electrolytes, find a solution that works for you. It could be tablets. My personal preference would be to get a bag of rock salt and dip my eggs in it, as well as eating fresh fruit. You may also find that the salted peanuts there are very salty.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
quote:I am 85kg, so about 190 pounds i think. so 190grams of protein a day? wow, this one is going to be tough.
Just a comment, the 190g/day is a [u]maximum</u> recommendation. To put that in perspective, that's the equivalent of about 6 ounces. (okay, yes there's other stuff in a steak or an egg, but the point is, it's not as much as it sounds).

Yes, you need more protein if you're exercising hard daily vs sitting on the couch, but don't overdo it and get into excess protein eating. It's a common misconception that we should be eating a cow a day to survive.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 08:03 PM
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You could supplement whatever protein you do get from regular meals with a whey protein smoothie. Depending on the brand, we're talking 25-30g per scoop. Do you have access to a blender? In SE Asia you'd have access to lots of 'greens' of some sort plus yogurt. After a heavy day, my smoothie looks like the following: 'hand grab' of spinach, about a cup of non-fat yogurt, blueberries, banana, sometimes orange, no-sugar added juice of some kind, a big spoon full of peanut butter, sometimes about a 1/4 cup of quick oats, and the scoop of protein powder. It's delicious and I'm sure packed with nutrients. I don't know if you have a cooler or what your situation is exactly so maybe a smoothie wouldn't keep through the day in those kinds of temps but maybe for your morning and after work supplement it'd work. Unless of course you're in a camp without a cooling function.
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 09:20 PM
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You're fit, and your body is able. So why not just ensure you eat enough?

Significantly altering your dietary balance may lead to distress.

Eating and resting enough are most important when doing hard days with few breaks.
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by guntis
Just a comment, the 190g/day is a [u]maximum</u> recommendation. To put that in perspective, that's the equivalent of about 6 ounces. (okay, yes there's other stuff in a steak or an egg, but the point is, it's not as much as it sounds).
6 oz of steak is actually 23 grams of protein.

TVP gives you terrible farts!
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 12-09-2013, 10:50 PM
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most protein supplements will leave you thirsty all day. Load up on liquids early in the day.
Hydrate all day and night, especially if taking any diet you are not used to.
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2013, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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OK great guys thanks!

I agree i should eat more of what i do, but in all honesty i have no idea what i eat and rarely plan anything. so i am not sure if what i am eating is right. today for example i have an extremely bad headache and am assuming it is due to something not being eaten?

Smoothie does sound ideal, but as you mention keeping cool that long isnt practical. Mornings would work quote well though. We have a LOT of different types of vegetables here and fruit as well, but fruit are highly seasonal. are there any fruit that i should avoid in excess, such as citrus perhaps?

glycogen, will read into that tonight, thanks for the new word. from the sounds of it your muscles kind of eat themselves much like how one burns fat, i will read more into that as well.

I think it may be wise to import a good supplement like the Whey. Anyone have a good suggestion on brand, seen as i am importing it may as well go for the gold. price isnt such a problem, my new checks are quite nice so i dont mind investing in health.

I will be able to bring a little camp style stove if need be as well, cooking isnt a problem as far as packing space, but is a problem as far as being time consuming. Basically the longer i am out of the forest the less money i make, more or less.

I am hoping to do 2-4 hour stints, one in the morning then have lunch and 30 min break and head back out for a second of the same. Most days will be like this, and long days might have 3-4 outings like this.

"glutamine, creatine and glycerol" i have seen 2 of those at the gyms here. I was under the impression they may not be healthy. Only going by the muscle heads who drink the stuff like water, but i am really not sure. I want to remain healthy, and will work less in order to not have to eat something that may be harmful long term.


here is the ingredients for my multivitamin thing, anyone see any health concerns taking 1-2 a day? 4.5g tablet. i rounded slightly on the larger numbers

Vit. C 143mg
Potassium Chloride 110mg
Di Calcium Phosphate 94mg
Sodium Chloride 72mg
Calcium Carbonate 54mg
Magnesium Carbonate 50mg
Vit.. E 42mg
Niacin 15.5mg
Canclium Pantothenate 12.4mg
Vit.B12 4mg
Vit. B2 3.7MG
Vit.B1 2.4MG
Vit. B6 2.34MG
BIOTIN .72MG
FOLIC ACID .62MG
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Citric Acid 2300mg
Sodium Bicarbonate 1012mg
Sodium Carbonate
Sorbitol 122mg
Tri-Calcium phosphate 112mg
Potato Starch 67mg
Aspartame 32mg
Orange flavoring 31mg
Beetroot red 20mg
Acesulfame K 3mg

Wondering if any of these are unhealthy at all. Not a fan of aspartame, but not sure at that amount if its a problem?


Appreciating all the help guys!!

To edit and add, i also have a small animal feed business which could be useful as i have commercial food dryers and and some processing equipment. so if there is some food that is ideal, it is easy for me to dry and process into something. only foods i am not setup to deal with are liquids or wet foods. Meaning we dry, powder, mix and press our ingredients now. Not sure if that would be at all useful in this scenario, but thought it might be worth mentioning?
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post #15 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2013, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by kyle
but fruit are highly seasonal.
you can buy frozen ones (wild blueberry, raspberries, strawberries)

Quote:
quote:
glycogen, will read into that tonight, thanks for the new word.
Glycogen is just a storage form of carbohydrate that the muscles use as fuel to generate energy in the form of ATP which is needed muscle contraction.

Quote:
quote:
Anyone have a good suggestion on brand,
According to ConsumerLab 31% of 27 tested protein powders failed their test. One brand which which is reputable is Optimum Nutrition. Get either the ON Platinum Hydrowhey or their Gold Standard 100% Whey (Extreme Milk Chocolate flavor). Most of the whey protein powder already have glutamine in them.

I recommend doing your own research on supplements. There are great articles written by professional on hydration, glutamine etc at www.bodybuilding.com BTW, you don't have to be into bodybuilding to take supplements. You can also search Pubmed for clinical studies.



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