cooking, eating, sleeping tarp pitch - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

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post #16 of (permalink) Old 04-07-2017, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/v...mpac/002_3.jpg



Mods deleted my kijiji link with pictures

10'x12' tarp, Something went wrong with the picture of the same tarp with all sides down.
There is room for 2 campers. With a bigger tarp for 4 the same corner pegs are used but 2 more upright poles are needed and the chimney is in the middle.

Summer size stove showing potatoes that were broiled in tin can that clamps on to the bottom of the stove.

Last edited by chimney packer; 04-07-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chimney packer View Post
Is there any backpackers that agree with me that most of the time it is too rough, like wind and cold, to cook outside a shelter.
Most of the time No! And Yes, sometimes Yes !
I love my Coleman https://goo.gl/QlhXeV burner . Cheap, and above very light in my backpack, and always ready to warm quickly a food can
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 04:26 PM
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It is very dangerous to be out in the open cooking your food if a bear shows up. The first thing you would do is back away from your food and hope that keeps him off you.
Any bear that gets a meal from you is turned into a problem bear.
It is much wiser to be inside your tent with your food when a bear shows up so you can spray him with the spray can thrust through a vent in your tent that you should have on every side. A sprayed bear sniffing around a tent might be cured from checking out tents for food. The only time any food should be in your tent is at meal time.
No matter where you eat your food you can not wipe away food scent from your person, you smell like food to a bear.

I'd request a cite from you on this, as it flies in the face of every bear safety course I've attended or book I've read. On your person, the smell of food is combined with your natural scent, which (unless they are human acclimated) is repellant to most animals. As well if I'm an animal and there is one place that smells like ALOT of food and another that smells like little bit of food along with a smelly human, most animals will go after the first.


I get it, you've designed a stove that works for you and how you like to camp. However implying that your way is somehow the only way or best way isn't going to earn you friends and is going to turn off potential customers
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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I'd request a cite from you on this, as it flies in the face of every bear safety course I've attended or book I've read. On your person, the smell of food is combined with your natural scent, which (unless they are human acclimated) is repellant to most animals. As well if I'm an animal and there is one place that smells like ALOT of food and another that smells like little bit of food along with a smelly human, most animals will go after the first.
The cite I would look for is what food smells are retained in the material of a shelter. If food smells retained, warrant the packing of two shelters. The food smell on a person is the same no matter where he cooked and ate it.
So the danger as I see it comes down to what food smells are retained in the material of a shelter compared to the danger and misery of cooking outside in all kinds of weather with nothing between you and the bear.

Last edited by chimney packer; 04-11-2017 at 02:14 AM.
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 12:46 PM
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The cite I would look for is what food smells are retained in the material of a shelter. If food smells retained, warrant the packing of two shelters. The food smell on a person is the same no matter where he cooked and ate it.
So the danger as I see it comes down to what food smells are retained in the material of a shelter compared to the danger and misery of cooking outside in all kinds of weather with nothing between you and the bear.

Ahh so you're just making this up based on your personal preference. It's fine you have your preferences and you are more than welcome to camp the way you like to camp. However to imply that your way is the "correct" way, or that your preferences apply to others is coming off as arrogant. Cooking in your sleeping shelter is not what bear safety specialists recommend, nor is cooking outside "dangerous" regardless of what you prefer. As others have mentioned, cooking outside in all kinds of weather is not "misery" to everyone. I've happily cooked outside over my Jetboil in pouring rain and over my Primus in -25
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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What is important in our discussion here, shall we deal with the questions.
Does the fabric of a tarp or tent retain the odors of food that might attract a bear?
If the answer is, not much retained odor, then we can sleep in it without much risk of attracting attentions of a hungry bear.
If the answer is yes then maybe to be safe we have to carry two shelters if we want to cook and eat inside.
I ask anyone to please post references of any research that has been done on the subject.

There is another bear question and that is are you safer in a tent cooking and eating or doing it all outside for the bear to see your every move with no tent to hide behind while you get ready to deploy your bear spray.

Last edited by chimney packer; 04-11-2017 at 10:46 PM.
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 02:43 PM
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It's not just the tarp or tent fabric retaining odors, its the crumbs, spills, washing water, etc. Anything that can generate a persistent odor.


Although we've been discussing Bears, by far most problems related to food and cooking in the backcountry are due to rodents (Porcupines, squirrels, mice, rats etc)


While Bears are relatively intelligent, they are not "watching you", determining that you're about to pull out your bear spray and "deciding" to "attack". Bears in general (provided they are not acclimated) will retreat the vast majority of the time they encounter a human. At times they can be curious about things they are not familiar with, observing from a distance (music, bright orange tents, etc.). In extremely rare conditions they may display predatory behavior, and of course sows are extremely protective of their young.


I will also point out, that being in a shelter while cooking means you are less aware of your surroundings, so you may not even know a bear is out there in order to get ready to deploy your spray. BTW there are far far far more people cooking in the backcountry in the open rather than in shelters.









A few good resources
http://www.bearsmart.com/
https://bearcenter.wsu.edu/
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 04:45 PM
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I will also point out, that being in a shelter while cooking means you are less aware of your surroundings, so you may not even know a bear is out there in order to get ready to deploy your spray.
Correct. I've been hiking/backpacking for 41 years and never had any bears drop by while I'm cooking food out in the open away from my tent. I should also add, that food smells would linger in a tent while you are sleeping so if you are a sound sleeper, a bear would gain entry and attack before you know what's happening.
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post #24 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by chimney packer View Post
There is another bear question and that is are you safer in a tent cooking and eating or doing it all outside for the bear to see your every move with no tent to hide behind while you get ready to deploy your bear spray.
I'd have to say that I'd much rather have the bear "see my every move" so he knows that I'm there rather than being hidden inside a tent and risking surprising the bear. If the bear knows that I'm there, he is less likely to come snooping around and more likely to take off. If the bear doesn't know that I'm there and all he sees is a tent that smells like food, he is more likely to come snooping around. I think that you are greatly increasing your chances of a bear encounter by cooking inside your tent and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I sure hope this isn't what you would recommend to a newbie who doesn't know better because you could be putting their lives in danger.
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post #25 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
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Default vestibule

Who's kidding who here, cooking is done in the vestibule of tents all the time in bad weather.
That's why most people want a vestibule on their tent.The chance of getting some some CO is greater with no chimney and you can not burn wood. Flareup of gas stoves is dangerous for those that cook in the vestibule. I do not need a vestibule because I use an inside chimney so I can cook inside safely with solid fuels.

If there was 2 backpackers cooking their bacon 200 yards apart. One in his tent and the other one out in the open with only his backpack. So a hungry bear shows up. First of all would the bear be afraid of the guy in the open and go for the guy in the tent. Would the guy in the open be afraid of the bear and back away from his bacon. The bear gets his bacon which endangers every camper after that because of a bacon loving bear. Only a fool would stand his ground to defend his bacon.
The guy in the tent just waits with spray ready and maybe the bear gets a dose of spray but no bacon and will never go near a tent for the rest of his life. A bear may charge at the guy in the open but not the guy in the tent.
I have eye level horizontal slit vents on each side of my tarp pitch, I am always checking out the neighbors, so I would see or hear the bear.
It has to be decided how much effort you want to make to try to wipe away all scent of food on your skin, breath,clothes, tent fabric.

Last edited by chimney packer; 04-14-2017 at 05:27 AM.
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 11:59 AM
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You should write books for uneducated people so they can continue their fearful ignorance while getting a buzz from your words.
You should also learn a bit more about what you talk about. What you're writing sounds like a lot of bullshit.

That bear that you think is going to attack one of your two test subjects would (most likely 99.9% of the time) turn away and go find a more common food source.
To dream up the scenario you've written about is pure ignorance. But.... that's what sells books, gear, bear spray, zombie survival manuals, etc.... (even your stove!)

So, to help you out... Don't spray your bearspray in or around your backyard. Once you spray it any animal with a respiratory system will have a hard time breathing in the area.

Maybe take your story to Facebook. It might fit in better there.

Myself, I've only encountered 12-15 bears up close and have never deployed spay at any of these.
I prefer facts instead of fiction so it's hard to see you promoting the fear.

Get out there and test out your gear. Key words "out there".
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post #27 of (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 12:33 PM
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To dream up the scenario you've written about is pure ignorance. But.... that's what sells books, gear, bear spray, zombie survival manuals, etc.... (even your stove!)
.
Canoeheadted is right on with this. chimney packer, you're actually doing a disservice to people on this site, who aren't familiar with bears. Can you please stop posting things that just aren't true.
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post #28 of (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 12:25 AM
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Canoeheadted is right on with this. chimney packer, you're actually doing a disservice to people on this site, who aren't familiar with bears. Can you please stop posting things that just aren't true.
Agreed. My wife and I carry a small nylon tarp to cook under since my wife and I go out in all weather conditions. Thus we aren't completely exposed to the elements when cooking and eating, well away from where we sleep at night. Never have we used our vestibule to cook in, but as a dry place to get changed and put boots on.

- Justin
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chimney packer View Post
Who's kidding who here, cooking is done in the vestibule of tents all the time in bad weather.
That's why most people want a vestibule on their tent.The chance of getting some some CO is greater with no chimney and you can not burn wood. Flareup of gas stoves is dangerous for those that cook in the vestibule. I do not need a vestibule because I use an inside chimney so I can cook inside safely with solid fuels.
In my 30 years of camping I've never cooked in my vestibule, and I never plan to. I want a vestibule to keep my gear out of the weather and provide a nice place to boot up and off, that's all.


You seem to have a pattern of generalizing your preferences onto everyone, which is why you're rubbing a bunch of people the wrong way. You're also trying to pass off your preferences as fact, even when it flies in the face of good outdoor practices.
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post #30 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 07:00 PM
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In my 30 years of camping I've never cooked in my vestibule, and I never plan to. I want a vestibule to keep my gear out of the weather and provide a nice place to boot up and off, that's all.
I agree, that's all I have ever used my vestibule for as well.
I get the impression that this whole post was created to try to sell these so called "1.5lb all steel stoves with chimneys" such as what were posted in the kijiji link. Almost like a used care salesman trying to mislead or scare unknowing, uneducated newbies into purchasing these things with untrue "made up" facts.
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