WHY do we need Goretex in leather boots? - Page 2 - ClubTread Community

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post #16 of (permalink) Old 09-01-2014, 03:00 PM
Dru
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Arnold

You can't honestly expect a hiking shoe/boot to last 12 years?!
I have got 15 yrs of heavy use so far out of my Scarpa Freneys. Two small cobbler repairs over that time, one to the cuff, one to the toe.
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 09-01-2014, 03:18 PM
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Back on topic,

I completely agree. My boots are meindl island pro's with goretex, but I have absolutely no clue what the goretex is there for. Sno-seal keeps my feet dry. I worked with a whole lot of geologists that questioned why I was "putting that gunk" on my boots, and proceeded to tell me that their boots had goretex so they didn't need it.

The next day they would complain that their feet were wet.

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Arnold

You can't honestly expect a hiking shoe/boot to last 12 years?!
I see that you haven't owned meindl's before.



Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wilderness_seeker


(So please don't let this be a debate about boots vs shoes, because I have my uses for both, and I am having an equally difficult time finding shoes that fit and don't hurt, and boots that fit and don't hurt).
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by gbarron

I doubt the value of both GT liners and leather boots themselves for hiking/backpacking.

...
I don't want to carry this further off topic, but your assertion that you can't wade through a creek >15cm deep and keep dry feet is silly. That's what gaitors are for. I have crossed thigh-deep waters and kept my feet dry thanks to well fitting gaitors. You aren't going to be able to stand in water like that all day, but crossing quickly with a half dozen steps works just fine.
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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I agree that the Meindl's seem particularly well-made. Perhaps other brands of leather boots are leaky; I wouldn't know, because I haven't used any other brand since 1991 or so, mostly because no other brand fits my foot (wide forefoot, normal heel). So I've used Meindl only because they fit me, but as a bonus, I've also had boots that lasted 12 years and the ability to wade shallow streams without getting wet. But now they've added Goretex to all their boots, when it wasn't necessary - their boots were already totally waterproof before.

Sorry, but I can't accept "you can't expect boots to last 12 years" and "you can't keep your feet dry when you're ankle-deep in water" when I've done both just fine for years, without the aid of Goretex.
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by gbarron
Since returning to backpacking, I've hiked exclusively in trail running shoes. I cover 25-35 km/day with an overnight pack. My shoes weigh 210 g each, offer adequate protection from rocks, and are decidedly non-waterproof. But they are comfortable, light, and dry very quickly.

Of course, YMMV.
I have nothing against trail shoes. I've been searching all summer for those as well. I thought I had a pair of Merrells that fit but then my heel was sliding around inside the shoe coming down Panorama Ridge, and the toe-bang against the front of the shoe was so bad that I couldn't even get down the Garibaldi Lake trail without changing into Teva sandals. The Hi-Tecs that fit me before were discontinued; Meindl trail shoes aren't sold here, and Merrell seems to think that if you require length and width in the forefoot, you must have a correspondingly enormous heel. I'm currently testing out some Scarpa trail shoes; I think they might work but I'm going to have to get the sides seriously punched out where my 4th and 5th toes are.

But my question was about why Goretex is required in leather boots

Seems the answer is 1) Marketing, and 2) Lots of really crappy leather boots out there that come apart at the seams and let water in.
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 12:54 AM
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Going on 14 years now on Vasque leathers. Fit well; waterproof; cramponed on them; use them hiking, biking, trailwork. No goretex in them.

Also got some Scarpa trail shoes that have Goretex but are way lighter. But I gotta say I didn't buy them because they had goretex but because they fit
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post #21 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 08:32 AM
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Gore-Tex in boots is 99% marketing. Can't sell them without it.
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post #22 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 10:41 AM
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same reason breathable jackets have pit zips
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by omegarun

same reason breathable jackets have pit zips
..how?
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post #24 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 03:51 PM
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There's definitely a bit of chicken and egg here.

Goretex on feet definitely came before Goretex in footwear - witness the Rocky brand Goretex socks you could buy in the late 80s and early 90s.

Blaming marketing only goes so far. At some point, some shoe manufacturer decided to put the Goretex in the boot rather than have someone wear a separate sock of it. The result sold. They extended it to more models. Those sold too. Marketing may have helped them sell, but I can think of many similar "innovations" (air pumps, integrated crampon bindings, etc) that have flopped miserably despite similar amounts of marketing.

Ultimately these things sell because the generic consumer wants to buy them. In my opinion, the generic consumer is a fool.
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post #25 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dru

At some point, some shoe manufacturer decided to put the Goretex in the boot rather than have someone wear a separate sock of it. The result sold.
I think it's also a matter of where it is applied. I think goretex in lightweight fabric hikers is a great idea. Not in all, but as an option. Because it makes them able to be waterproof. That's what I mostly hike in, and that's great.
I just don't see any need for it applied to one-piece leather boots that were *already* perfectly waterproofable before the introduction of the goretex. Here it adds little benefit for the downsides, unlike the benefit found in fabric boots.
And yet notably, I can still get no-goretex fabric boots that aren't waterproof at all, but no-goretex leather seems to be all gone.
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 07:51 PM
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Some Meindl boots are still without Goretex: their double-stitched Norwegian welted ones. This is from the description for one of them:

"In combination with the heavy duty norwegian welt you can say goodbye to your Gore-tex boots forever."

It used to be you could equate Goretex with lots of seams which would make sense, although a pair of Vasque Sundowners (mostly one-piece) I had in the early 90's had Goretex. Of course I thought that was cool at the time! So it's too bad if it's true that almost all boots have Goretex, including near one-piece ones.
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post #27 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 08:57 PM
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Its a shame we are so limited in choices, almost prefer leather boots now over gortex. When they get wet either with or without sweat, they really smell...

K
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post #28 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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So I was in MEC the other day in the boot section, and I was waiting to snag a sales person, so I overheard a customer who had picked up a pair of leather boots and said to the sales person, "So these will be waterproof then, as they have goretex, right?"
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 09-03-2014, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dru
Goretex on feet definitely came before Goretex in footwear - witness the Rocky brand Goretex socks you could buy in the late 80s and early 90s.
I just bought a pair of these socks. Decided to try backpacking in light, fast-dry trail runners that were not Gore-Tex. Yes my feet got quite wet. Got to camp, dried my feet, slipped on a dry sock then my Gore-Tex oversocks to keep my feet dry, put wet shoes back on. Worked like a charm. My feet were warm, dry and happy and I didn't lug around the extra weight of boots. With the amount of water I saw on the weekend - Gore-Tex or no, I was bound to have wet feet.

This is the route I'll go going forward - might consider a heavier boot for longer trips with bigger load. If I'm going out though for a couple days with light pack - it's runners for me with no Gore-Tex in sight...aside from my camp socks.

To the OP - Lowa has several boots in their hiking/backpacking/trekking boot lines that are "LL" or leather-lined, no Gore-Tex. Not sure where one could get them in Canada but I've seen some Lowa boots at Wholesale Sports.

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post #30 of (permalink) Old 09-03-2014, 10:09 AM
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its something they think they need. Try to find a breatheable jacket without pitzips, even though openning them defeats the pressure driven membrane system. Lots of people think gore-tex only way to stay dry, so feet too. Gaiters and leather awesome combination feet only occasionally damp. I wore GT boots for a few years, they were great boots..but my feet were always wet had to use beeswax on them daily to keep them from shredding after about 10kms. But what ever works for you. Event gaiters, leather boots, patagonia wool socks and a quality durable footbed nothing better that I have found yet.
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