Butane Cannister Shortcomings - ClubTread Community

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post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Default Butane Cannister Shortcomings

A friend and I have solved the shortcomings of the standard Butane cannisters offered for LPG stoves. We now re-fill standard IsoPro cannisters (4 oz or 8 oz) with Propane. Butane has a boiling point of -1C while Propane's is -42C. Filling the lindal-valve cannisters to their standard weight with propane allows the usage of these cannisters at temps down to -37C. And it has the added benefit of keeping all these cannisters out of our landfills ! I have used these propane-refilled cannisters with my MSR Reactor in the Alberta Rockies at altitudes up to 7000 ft MSL and at temps down to -36C and in very high winds. Performance is simply superb.
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 10:29 AM
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Okay that is pure fsck'n stupidity.

The vapour pressure of propane at room temperature is about 130 psig. The vapour pressure of butane/isobutane mixtures is AT MOST about 20 psig.

The only reason this has probably not killed you yet is because automotive propane actually contains a lot of butane and isobutane, and most of the time very little propane.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 10:37 AM
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Ever notice the difference in build between the fuel mix containters and those big beefy green propane containers?
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 10:43 AM
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Also of note is it says to not refill the containers on them...

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 12:02 PM
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He also made a post in the following thread that should probably be deleted:
https://www.clubtread.com/sforum/topi...TOPIC_ID=34683

Absolutely hideous idea, and I am highly skeptical that the poster has really tried this. I call troll.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 12:54 PM
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This is a bad idea as the canisters are not rated for propane pressure and can explode if they get too hot or the valve leaks.

Also your stove may not run properly running pure propane.

It is not worth risking your life and the lives of those around you to save a few dollars.

This has come up on the backpackinglight forums but I can not find the specific link but you can dig around there if you like.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...ums/index.html

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 12:58 PM
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The isobutane canisters are recyclable, so they shouldn't end up in the landfill anyways.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 02:11 PM
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HOLY CRAP!! Please, anyone reading this, don't fill those little aluminum cans with propane. Sure, propane works better in cold conditions, but as stated above, it is stored at a much greater pressure than butane or butane mixes.

Also, unless you're planning on operating in sub zero environments, propane actually has less energy per gram than butane.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 02:37 PM
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Always only refill your non-refillable canisters with the original fuel mix.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 04:56 PM
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I agree with Matt..

Do the math

Bottom line propane comes in a heavy metal walled cylinder and your putting it into a thin walled pop can.
Propane and butane have very different vaporizing pressures and Btu's
Butane actually has higher btu's then propane

Propane 70f 21.1c 110psi
isopro 80/20 mix
Specs only went to 70/30% propane so 20% propane would be less then 45....70f 45psi

So you are over pressurizing the cylinder more then double and making a bomb.


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quote:Originally posted by Matt

Okay that is pure fsck'n stupidity.

The vapour pressure of propane at room temperature is about 130 psig. The vapour pressure of butane/isobutane mixtures is AT MOST about 20 psig.

The only reason this has probably not killed you set is because automotive propane actually contains a lot of butane and isobutane, and most of the time very little propane.
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Wow ! Quite the response ! I figured some of you would respond as such... sigh....
Here we go!
1: Lindal valve handles well in excess of 250 PSI
2: Commercial cylinders are rated to more than three times of their actual filled pressures.
3: Cans are "steel" not "aluminium "pop cans" (Where do you come up with this stuff ?)
4: Ever see small cans of Propane retailed under the names "Ultra Blue" or "Bernzomatic" ?
Also small, relatively thin-walled steel cans with similar pressure ratings and lindal
valves. Funny, their marketing was not met with similar hysterical rants...
Also comply with all Transport Canada and Industry Canada safety standards.
5: Pure Propane has been marketed in Europe for several decades....
6: MATT: Where do I start ? First, refrain from the profanity, will you ? How old are you anyway ? Second, Actually not running "automotive" propane; it is quite pure. Do you even know what you are talking about ? Third, I could show you some JPEGs of the refueling valve assembly, temp measuring equipment, etc. but I'm sure that would get you even more hysterical. Ever consider switching to decaf ?
7: PACKRAT: Actually, ANY fuel can (liquid, propane, butane, kerosene, etc) can explode if too hot or valve leaks. What is your point ? Avoid ANY flammable fuel ?
And actually, the stove does not run poorly on propane. Runs very well at -37C and at altitudes. And where did you get the phrase "to save a few bucks" ? I never mentioned that at all. This fuel is being used to allow for safe, reliable usage of a cannister stove at typical Canadian winter temps; temps that render Butane unusable.
Regards, and try to keep it civil, will you? I thought this forum was for adults....
Andrew Klinzmann
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:40 PM
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quote:Regards, and try to keep it civil, will you? I thought this forum was for adults
You haven't been using internet forums long have you? This is about as civil as they get.
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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For Time2clmb: Sigh.... Yeah, you're probably right. I really love the comment about deleting certain posts, etc. So much for the "concept" of a free exchange of ideas, eh ?
Have a good one !
Andrew Klinzmann
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
quote:Also of note is it says to not refill the containers on them...
Good advice to follow...

http://www.propane101.com/understandingpropanetanks.htm
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post #15 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Probably accuse me of running with scissors next !
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