Patagonia vs. the rest - ClubTread Community

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post #1 of (permalink) Old 11-13-2006, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
Headed for the Mountains
 
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Default Patagonia vs. the rest

So Patagonia carries a pretty heavy price tag for what you are getting. Really, I dont mind. The company has environmental commitments, which I love, and the comments here say the clothes themselves are fantastic. So paying a premium price for a great jacket from a truly responsible company is okay by me! But the one thing that kills me, the one thing that has stopped me from buying anything from Patagonia so far, is that damn MADE IN CHINA stamp.

So what's better? MEC's (or whoever) Made In Canada or Patagonia's Made In China. Materials for MEC's stuff probably comes in from overseas, but that's one trip and it's made here. If Patagonia's stuff is made in China, and some of it contains recycled materials from old clothes, that means that the stuff had to be shipped to China, made there, and then shipped back. I know if Patagonia was made here the stuff would cost a ridiculous amount but still. Anyway, I'm torn, because i want to really buy a Patagonia jacket...
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 11-13-2006, 11:14 PM
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A lot of MEC's stuff is made overseas. Only a very little of it these days is made in Canada.

I've never been disappointed with Patagonia. Pricey yes, but you get what you pay for. I have quite a few patagonia things and every single one of them has exceeded my expectations.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 11-13-2006, 11:24 PM
 
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I've never been disappointed with my Pata-gucci either.
I think it's misleading to say that gear made in China is not quality or not worth the money. I know there's a lot of cheap [email protected] that are made in China, but then there are some decent stuff too. It all in the quality control of the products... if it doesn't pass the QC with Patagonia, then it won't be accepted and delivered to consumer.

MEC stuff is nice too and from what I remember, a lot of stuff is made overseas as well. I was told that both MEC and Patagonia check the factories that the gear is made for quality and for proper treatment of the factory workers, if that is the case, I am willing to pay more for their products.








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post #4 of (permalink) Old 11-13-2006, 11:59 PM
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Most of the products we buy nowadays are made in China or Bangladesh or some such country. Cheap labour. I check labels often and very rarely do I see Made in Canada. It seems to be a sign of the times.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 11-14-2006, 12:43 AM
 
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I made the assumption at first that you were strictly talking about quality but you don't mention that. Being an 'eco' guy, and based on what you did write I think you're more weighing the implications of buying something that's possibly shipped overseas a few times before becoming a product, as opposed to something that's made locally.

Looking here:
(link below is no longer valid; it was their page on waterproof/breathables)
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_l...=1163489216695

...there's a relatively good amount of stuff made in Canada. Who knows where the material came from. Sometimes they tell you where the fabrics originated. In this day and age I think it's great to start rethinking the transport that's involved in the products we buy, if we can. So, given that there are good products available that are made in Canada and if it's MEC you're interested in (because they contribute to the environment as well) and the product is lighter on your wallet, I say go with MEC (or whoever 'made in Canada', provided you're happy with the quality).



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post #6 of (permalink) Old 11-14-2006, 01:34 AM
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I was interested to read MEC's explanation for shutting down Serratus (higher end gear "Made in Canada"). They found that in many cases their material costs (pre-Canadian labour) were higher than the cost of a finished product made to their design and quality standards coming from China or Vietnam. Welcome to the Global Village!
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 11-14-2006, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
quote:If Patagonia's stuff is made in China, and some of it contains recycled materials from old clothes, that means that the stuff had to be shipped to China, made there, and then shipped back.
This is actually a lot more environmentally friendly than it sounds. North America receives way more stuff from Asia than we ship back. This means that Patagonia has to pay to send shipping containers back to their Asian factories empty. So instead they gather up enough old capilene undies to fill a container and ship it back full. MEC is in the midst of implementing a similar plan for their rapidi-Ts in an effort to increase the amount of recycled materials in their clothing.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 11-14-2006, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Of the last few things I've bought from MEC (Hydration pack, long johns, biking pants, biking jacket, biking shirt, dry bag) only the hydration pack was made overseas with everything else made in Canada (dry bag was from the states but it's pretty much the same).



But thanks Gulagger for that bit of information. I never thought about the the fact that all those containers have to repeat the trip in the other direction. They might as well be filled with stuff. Plus the high amount of recycled content may be enough to offset the whole Made in China label.... maybe. Anyone care to suggest a good Patagonia jacket?
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 02:27 PM
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You can still get products made in Canada that are better quality and the same price as Patagonia.

Westcomb and Arc'teryx

Look at:

Stitch count
Seam allowance
Seam tape thickness
Face Fabric
Lamination

You can still find Canadian Made quality at ver competitive prices.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Mike Valhalla

You can still get products made in Canada that are better quality and the same price as Patagonia.

Westcomb and Arc'teryx

Look at:

Stitch count
Seam allowance
Seam tape thickness
Face Fabric
Lamination

You can still find Canadian Made quality at ver competitive prices.
I was researching waterproof breathable jackets recently as I had to replace mine. I found the Arcteryx site really difficult to navigate. They have way too many options and the blurb for each jacket is something inane like, "This is our most popular jacket." What does that mean? I don't have the time to research minute details. I just want a brief description of what the jacket is designed for.

I ended up purchasing a Patagonia jacket for several reasons: I like their environmental/labour policies, excellent website that provided relevant information and reasonable price point for the quality. I would have liked to buy Arcteryx as it is local but they made it too hard for me. Plus, Patagonia may not be local but they have a local/global philosophy.
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 11-15-2006, 11:45 PM
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Mike, not to hijack this thread, but do you know if Arc'teryx is moving towards 100% "Made in China" production, or do they intend to maintain some % made locally? I've noticed a lot more Arc'teryx made overseas and am now checking the tag every time I'm considering one of their products.
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 12:19 AM
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Red
I totally agree the new Arc'teryx site is a pain. There are many retailers of Arc'teryx in the lower mainland that can answer questions on their gear.

I don't want you to think I am pumping them because I sell them. I feel personally the Gore XCR line they produce can not be beat on quality, materials, fit and price. Apples to Apples right now they are still the top.

Threepine

To quickly answer your question 74% of all Arc'teryx product is currently made in Canada. I would love to see it all stay here, but I realize with the cost of Canadian production and the market. They will slowly send more stuff to be produced overseas. As of right now because of the welding , seam allowances and cuts they are unable to have them made any where but with the machines that were designed to make them. Specifically Gore XCR Line and 90% of the Soft shells.

I have nothing against Patagguci and own there products and am happy with every peice I own. This is a debate I face regularly and could'nt help but get involved

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post #13 of (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 07:23 AM
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I love my Patagonia hardshell and would buy the brand again. I can't compare to Dead-Bird because I can't afford their clothes. I've had some of their packs and they were great, but when I looked at hard and soft shells, the prices weren't a "premium." They were so much higher I couldn't afford them no matter how much I wanted one.

Last winter Yamnuska guiding was selling their Arc'teryx "Yamnuska" labelled jackets for $300, but they only had XL left, hence the great deal. I could have fit an Everest-style down suit, or two, underneath. Oh, well.

I need to replace my softshell pants, and the Patagonia, Cloudveil and MEC pants are mostly in the $150-180 range for some pretty nice pants. The least expensive Arc'teryx ones I found are $320. Twice the price. Jeez, I'd love to buy Canadian made, but the reality is that if ALL the softshell pants were $300+ (as they were at one time) I'd buy NONE. I just plain can't spend $300 on softshell pants.

Now, I see lots of guys out in the their Alpha LT's, but they are mostly pros that didn't shell out $600 for the jacket...
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 07:41 AM
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I was at MEC and thought the samething when I saw a patagonia sweater for 60.00 and "made in china". Since I work for import/export company, I know that stuff made in china is really dirt cheap so it's difficult for me to buy products "made in china" because I know it costs CENTS to make and the retailers are making big money.
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post #15 of (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 07:54 AM
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I love my Arc'teryx rainshell - I've owned it a couple years now, just washed and treated it and the thing looks like the day I bought it

Can't speak for Patagonia, but I was at MEC the other day and their prices seemed a bit on the high side, I saw a nice pair of rainpants but unless santa wants to be really nice to me I don't think I'll be wearing them anytime soon.

Besides, I don't need more gear right?

Interesting debate
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