Skeena at Buntzen Lake & Tiff with a Dog Owner - April 11, 2015 - ClubTread Community

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post #1 of (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Default Skeena at Buntzen Lake & Tiff with a Dog Owner - April 11, 2015

We took Powerhouse road to the first Dilly Dally junction. We continued on the trail, skipped the second junction, and continued straight to Buntzen Bay. We turned back just short of the village. There were 2 off-leash dogs in the area who seemed friendly enough, but Skeena has an aggressive initial reaction to other dogs (typical border collie personality, from what I know) so we turned back before annoying the locals.

We headed back to the Dilly Dally junction, hoping to check out Croker Lookout and Little Horn mtn. We headed up the trail and turned around at the first big creek crossing. The water level wasn't too bad for Ryan & I, but I was skeptical about letting Skeena cross it. We headed back to Powerhouse road and took the Academy trail back to the parking lot.

We got into a bit of a tiff with another dog owner. Skeena adores people, but she is not friendly with other dogs. From what I understand, this is typical of her breed' personality. On our way back, we saw many dogs off-leash in on-leash sections of the trail. I have no problem with it and I see it all the time. BUT, knowing Skeena is very aggressive, I try to move her off trail, give dog owners a heads-up that she will be aggressive towards their dog, and suggest putting them on-leash until we pass by. Most dog owners are understanding and comply. They put their dogs on-leash, give Skeena a pat on the head, and continue on.

At one section, there were 2 large dogs off-leash, coming down the buntzen lake trail. I went off trail with Skeena and put her into a pocket right beside the lake. Ryan asked the owner to put her dogs on a leash, she agreed. As they walked towards us, she didn't put the dogs on a leash, the 2 dogs ran towards Skeena and of course, Skeena charged and nipped at them. The owner called her dogs back. While passing by, we commented saying "next time instead of ignoring the request, please put your dogs on a leash". The girl became livid, turned around and made a few comments including "Don't tell me what to do" "Who the **** are you?" and "What's it to you if my dog's off-leash, if I want to pay the fine, that's my business not yours".

I don't give a $#@! about the fine, my concern is my dog eating yours, after I've given fair warning. We exchanged thoughts and continued on.

Buntzen Lake is a very popular area for dogs and it has a specific off-leash section which includes an area by the lake and various trails. I often see off-leash dogs along the undesignated trails and it doesn't bother me the least bit.

Skeena isn't always aggressive and I can pinpoint when I need to take her off trail and when I do not. Some of the time, she's distracted by pinecones, sticks and other 'toys' and isn't concerned with other canine trail users.

Any thoughts from other dog owners? Skeena loves the outdoors and we always follow the rules because of her personality. Being undermined by another owner who may not understand the rules or why they're in place is a little bothersome.

Now that Skeena sounds like a belligerent little pooch, here are some cute pics from our day at Buntzen. She really is a doll!
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 03:10 PM
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Ugh.. Sorry you had to deal with that! Hate the pissing matches and sheer bloody-mindedness that dog owners and hikers get into out there.

My shiba, Kuma, was attacked by 2 off leash dogs on a walk, and since then I bring bear spray even when walking to parks just out of town.. I haven't had to spray a dog yet, but I've brought it out and readied it plenty of times, and get into it big time with each person who has had their dog off leash and tries to give me crap about getting ready to spray them.

Kuma used to be friendly to all comers, but since the incident bristles and growls at any dog bigger than him who comes near (glad I had MY dog on a leash, in case MY dog attacks your dog? Yeah, thought so..).

That owner knew exactly what she was doing, and was just itching for someone to call her on it so she could vent all over someone.. *sigh*
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Doug, sorry to hear! Poor Sheba.

A few years ago, we were heading up Polytrichum lookout, in the same area. There were 3 dogs off-leash, one was another border collie. The border collie barked at Skeena and she barked back (neither were aggressive, looked more like a territorial thing). The other 2 dogs heard and came running up behind the other border collie, one came right up to Skeena and pounced on her, Skeena nipped, the dog nipped back, and actually bit into her. It ended up being a deep cut and she needed stitches.

The owner was well behind her dogs and by the time she ran up, she was shocked. Said her dogs have never bit another, etc. and she was very apologetic. Luckily, the dog owner was a vet. We drove over to her location, she opened up shop and treated Skeena; stitches, medication, follow-ups and all, for free.

Still, felt terrible for Skeena. When she realized she was hurt, she ran between my mom and I and tried to squeeze herself between my legs. Now if Skeena isn't distracted, I try to avoid off-leash dogs as much as I can.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 05:37 PM
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[QUOTE]Doug, sorry to hear! Poor Sheba.

Skeena nipped, the dog nipped back, and actually bit into her. It ended up being a deep cut and she needed stitches.

The owner was well behind her dogs and by the time she ran up, she was shocked. Said her dogs have never bit another, etc. and she was very apologetic. Luckily, the dog owner was a vet. We drove over to her location, she opened up shop and treated Skeena; stitches, medication, follow-ups and all, for free.

/QUOTE]

I should think so! I honestly don't understand how people let their dogs off leash, thinking that because their dog won't cause trouble (or so they think, till it's too late) there can't possibly be any dogs or people on the trail that won't be perfectly willing to start trouble with them..
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 11:26 PM
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Unfortunately you can't control other people's behavior. If you forewarned her and your dog got aggressive with hers and injury ensued, she's got nothing to say. Dog owners are almost 100% on the defense if you call them out and I've found it does nothing.


We've had the same thing happen with Gin, loves people, couldn't care less about other dogs. We were in a popular area so he was leashed. Another dog came over, I told the owner to give my dog space, didn't listen, my dog got aggressive with his. Looked a him and said, told you so. If my dog kicks your dog's ass it's not my problem.


If you've got a "not so other pet friendly" dog (we had one), I would stay away from popular areas where you know other dogs will be off leash. We stopped taking our dogs to popular places a long time ago as we hiked with them off leash most of the time.


Personally I don't mind off leash dogs as long as they don't get in my space unless I let them. If they do get aggressive, whether with me or my canine companion, be assured that dog will get an ass-kicking one way or another.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 12:46 AM
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My family has two dogs, one is the most easy going and sociable dog you'd ever meet, but the other one is extremely reactive. I totally understand your situation today, I encounter a lot of the same problems. Some other owners are oblivious.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 03:02 AM
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A few years ago I was walking in the Rice Lake area in Lynn Canyon Park and a couple was with their dog off leash...they said he'll just be friendly...then he jumped up quick and bit in to my arm...piercing a couple decent sized holes in to my soft shell jacket.
I was so stunned and they just stood there....no apology....wasn't too impressed
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 01:10 PM
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Gin was awesome for that, laid back and alert, he'd give a stern warning on approaching loose dogs, especially if there were more than one. the second warning was enough to send any dogs the other way..
Back then he was big and ripped with muscles though, and could move like lighnting.
He did mellow out a lot after PoohBear passed.
Id also suggest using trails with less loose dogs and distractions.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 01:32 PM
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The surest indicator of a new attitude at CT ... a civil dog thread! Amazing!
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Spunky, thanks for the insight. Best to keep Skeena away from high traffic areas and there are plenty of trails in the tri-city area we can take her for nearby walks/hikes.

HikerSkierRunner27, glad you can relate.

Greenarc, sorry to hear. I think the dog is often more remorseful than the owner.

Skeena hasn't bit anyone (dog or person) or caused damage, but she is quick to nip when she goes into her aggressive 'zone' - it's almost trance-like. As soon as she's out of her zone, she looks at whichever owner is closest (myself, my sister, or my mom) with an apologetic expression; she'll either lay down with her head between her paws or bow her head and wont make eye contact with anyone.
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 01:55 PM
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You can only be responsible for the behavior of you own party, you can't be held accountable for the behavior of other animals and their owners.
As the owner of a "reactive" Golden, I've needed to resort to an electric collar (which is a provocative topic in it's own right), but the positive behavior results I've seen and the peace of mind offered by having some control of your animal when he's at a distance from you off-leash has convinced me of the value. I'm able to recall my wandering dog quickly and directly when I've spotted an incoming potential conflict (eg: aggressive dog, teasing coyote, bear, etc. My radar is better than his), and keep his focus on me instead of directed into the possible conflict. Even my neighbours with dogs who he has had issues with in the past have remarked on his improvement.
I know this doesn't help with other dog owners and their accountability, but at least you are doing your part.
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 07:48 PM
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I sympathize- my big mutt was a super laid-back guy, until he got attacked a few times (either in off-leash areas, or when he was on-leash and the other dog was loose). I find I can tell when he is going to be reactive/uncertain around large dogs, and when it is fine for them to meet, and I take the same precautions. I try to visit busy places like Buntzen on rainy days or on weekdays when there are fewer crowds. It is always frustrating to find other dog owners do not take their responsibility for the safety of their dog seriously. And it is really nice to see a civil thread. 8) Enjoy the trails with your pooch!
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 04-17-2015, 09:45 PM
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It is so often the humans that are the problem. My dog is a rescue dog, she is scared of adult males. If we encounter someone on the trails (a rare occurrence around here), I call her back to me, leash her, tuck her in behind me, and advise the person that she is scared of people she does not know, please ignore her, do not make eye contact, and please walk on past.

Last week we met a guy who said "not true, ALL dogs love me" and tried to pet her. It took all my strength to hold her back from biting him on the calf after she snapped at him.

She is scared, she was abused earlier in life, it is not her fault.
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susied View Post
It is so often the humans that are the problem. My dog is a rescue dog, she is scared of adult males. If we encounter someone on the trails (a rare occurrence around here), I call her back to me, leash her, tuck her in behind me, and advise the person that she is scared of people she does not know, please ignore her, do not make eye contact, and please walk on past.

Last week we met a guy who said "not true, ALL dogs love me" and tried to pet her. It took all my strength to hold her back from biting him on the calf after she snapped at him.

She is scared, she was abused earlier in life, it is not her fault.

hope fully she will ease back to normal, tough having abused dogs. The 2 we had, Pooh Bear likely had issues and was a bit skiddish but was Ok after 1 year, Gin was dropped off and abonded at shelter, sort of, but was good after a few weeks of intense training.
Its hard to find the real time it takes to recover messed up animals. I used to also think that I could get any dogs trust right away, its not going to happen, but can do it very fast if allowed.

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post #15 of (permalink) Old 04-18-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Aqua Terra View Post
hope fully she will ease back to normal, tough having abused dogs. The 2 we had, Pooh Bear likely had issues and was a bit skiddish but was Ok after 1 year, Gin was dropped off and abonded at shelter, sort of, but was good after a few weeks of intense training.
Its hard to find the real time it takes to recover messed up animals. I used to also think that I could get any dogs trust right away, its not going to happen, but can do it very fast if allowed.
Aqua Terra, she has come a very long way in the two years I have owned her. She is so much more confident and happy. However it did take the full 2 years for her to accept my partner - finally she will go to him for a pat of her own accord.
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