When we walk down a path in the wilderness we pay attention to our surroundings and by doing so we learn from our own experiences. Life is the same. Very quickly one of the first things we learn as children in grade school growing up is that there are lots of bullies out there who spend most of their life looking for victims. Once they find a victim they make efforts to abuse and threaten that victim to a degree of submission and will continue that behavior until stopped by society.

As educated responsible members of society when we allow bullying to continue we are no better than the bully and by remaining quiet and submissive we encourage that kind of behavior.

While posting in these Treads it soon becomes very obvious that everything I mention above is very much present in these pages. Before I submitted my first post I made an effort to look at the guidelines that are in place for these forums. In those guidelines I noted the following. Be nice to each other, be respectful to others, do not attack other people for voicing their view points. It also suggests that if it is your intention to conduct yourself in this unacceptable inappropriate manner do it off line either in person or via a personal e-mail.

I did something that I was somewhat hesitant to do and that was to put another person on my ignore list. What I should have done in hindsight was to suggest all of the above information for that person to consider thereby giving that person an opportunity to change the way he speaks to other members.

I do not know Jim Hamlin other than he was the founder of this web site. I am sure when he created these pages it was with the intention to promote a learning opportunity by sharing each our own experiences with one another......Unless I get thrown off as a member for expressing what is obvious I look forward to taking part. In life I have made it a point to not back down from something that I strongly believe in and for that reason I stand fast on my position......See you at the next campfire if I get invited.

Online bullying eh? Hardly. Words and disagreements are one thing, but to put one person on your ignore list for disagreeing with you when an other is threatening physical violence to others, well that's just idiotic but hey, it suites you better since the person that was the worst offender was defending you. Lame. To put a person on an ignore list for challenging your thinking is just mental lazyness.

Herb,

It's really unfortunate that all this has happened. In all honesty, in the 8 years that I've been on this Board, never have I seen such testosterone, thump my chest filled garbage in so many threads by the same people. Believe me when I tell you that it's not always like this and I urge you to continue with ClubTread.

Honestly guys, and you know who you are, stop with the BS and act like well behaved human beings. Is this what it's come down to? Childish name calling, threats, who has the bigger penis, egging on to get everyone all riled up? Enough is enough. You all need to chill.

POOL'S CLOSED

due to AIDS and stuff*






























* = bears

Clubtread is a great place and in general you get good thoughts and feedback.

My impression, you walked in and started threads that included two of the most inflammatory subjects around here, Bears and Dogs. The inevitable happened and perhaps it's raining or somebody misplaced their meds… I just skimmed to get the tone because every once in a while one of ‘those threads' gets pulled out of the ditch and a few valid points get made. FWIW I don't ignore people, I just skim.

As for those of us who often prefer to remain silent, I don't think that makes me complicit in bullying... at the top of the page is the link “report spam” , I use that once in a while if it seems to me the tone is going in the wrong direction. That gets the attention of the moderators and they can do what they will. In general we are lightly moderated, I like this format and in general it works.

Baxter, make a trip report or two. Assuming you get out once in a while hiking or on the water or whatever. You'll probably get more positive feedback that way, maybe even make a few real world contacts for partners etc.

Also sometimes it's helpful if you find yourself in a hole to quit digging.

Not me.
Seriously, its like a little toddler dink. I get by though.

Some people care way too much about other peoples opinions and approvals. Ten pages of shit slinging in response to wanting to take your dog on a hike... Really?!? If you think its a good idea, then do it. If you think its a bad idea, don't do it. I don't know how it could be any more complex than that. But, of course, we've built a world for ourselves where nobody can be accountable for their own decisions. Too many drunk drivers suing the pubs.

did something that I was somewhat hesitant to do and that was to put another person on my ignore list. What I should have done in hindsight was to suggest all of the above information for that person to consider thereby giving that person an opportunity to change the way he speaks to other members.


Practicing what I preach.

Kevin, if you are willing to make an attempt to start again, you have my sincere apology for not recognizing that you were attempting to support me. I found myself getting lost in everything that was being said in the back and forth banter and that is what I referred to with reference to threats and bullying. I have never being a proponent for idle threats and in most cases made an effort to either step in, stop it, or walk away.

When one person walks away from an altercation or abusive behavior one has to ask themselves who is in control. For me it has always been the person walking away. I have always disliked foul language of any kind, being rude, as well as idle threats regardless of who threatens as in most cases it shows an inability to express one's self in a manner acceptable to society.

As I look at every thread that you have posted over the years about your feats and accomplishments (as I mentioned previously) it shows a person of endurance and ability. You have so much to teach fellow listeners…………I am looking forward to your response and please know if you want to challenge me on any topic I submit that is ok all I ask is that you do it in a kind and respectful way as you can expect no less from me……..enjoy the day

Bullying involves power. You cannot be bullied unless someone has power over you. On line bullying takes place when people, known to each other in "real life" use the internet to marshal forces and create power over another person.

School kids use online bullying all the time. They create an environment that extends off-line and allows one person, or a group of people, to have real power over someone else.

If you're bullied, you experience real fear. If someone calls you a name, it's not bullying. Someone threatening you is not bullying. Someone that can control you through actions or words and makes you fearful is a bully.

Suppose someone on the forum frequented a certain part of the mountains that I do. If I were to make them fearful of heading out there as they were concerned about encountering me, then I am becoming a bully. If I threatened to come to your house and harm you, and you thought I really knew where you lived and that I would carry through on those threats, then I am bullying you.

The exchange between Kobracom and dcipher is not necessarily bullying. Reading the PM email exchange, it seems they are fighting, but I don't see one having real power over another. A fight is not bullying.

My daughter has an antagonistic relationship with another girl in her class. My daughter is 5'2" and 90lbs. This other girl is 5'2" and 200lbs. Seriously. But, whether the altercation is verbal or physical, my daughter is often victorious. But, people assume that the other girl is a bully because of her size and aggressive nature. Wrong in this case. She has no unilateral power over my daughter. No bullying.

People like to accuse Kevin of being a bully. Why? Well, it seems that when someone comes on the forum and posts "I am expert" information, he has no qualms about speaking his mind about it. People become defensive and sides are taken, and conflict arises. Unilateral power? Fear? I don't see that. Has anyone on CT ever thought, really, that Kevin would harm you in some way? Is anyone afraid of him? No.

As for the bullies that seek victims, this is true. Herb is right when he notes that the secret to nullifying the bully's power is by eliminating the bystanders. They need to take a stand against the bully. However, my experience with school children is that the most bullied students are quick to the take the role of victim. Bullies need to learn not to bully, but victims also need to learn not to be victims.

Agree. Being a cop (or ex-cop, or dog-handler or whatever) entitles you to the respect that comes with that position, as with any other job. Earning respect amongst a group of hikers as anything more than a 'self-described expert' requires demonstrating that you have done a few hikes. Unlike being a cop, in this case respect is earned, it's not an entitlement, so don't be surprised when you get challenged over presenting your personal opinions as if they were fact.

To add , for Baxter, [ I'm having to guess & read between some of your lines ] is that there are situations on this and other forums/topics where disagreements are common , certain members have acrimonious debates, yet knowing the "Devil" makes it easier to bury the hatchet , and I would even welcome a cup or two of Kahlua around a fire with some of these acrimonious souls on C.T. [8D]
[ p.s. interesting how that recent locked thread we are referring to keeps rising in ratings & viewings ]

So I was panning for gold in Sasquatc hcountry up Pitt River when I came across the wreck of a crashed B2 bomber...but the wreck had been destroyed by clueless idiots that were letting their dogs run off-leash while they had a banned campfire in a provincial park

Sorry i can't resist, when somebody makes a dumb ass claim , i like to take a shot. Our media bombard us with falseness everyday, so i see the internet as a place to even the score somewhat.
Baxter, you're a nice guy, don't take it too seriously.

Yah stick around Baxter. And to add to that - definitely don't take it personally.

Indeed. I certainly noticed that Baxter was notably silent when another poster directly threatened no less than three of us with physical violence, which he openly, and repeatedly, claimed was in defense of Baxter. In light of your apparent complicity, I find your current claims disingenuous at best.

you forgot fishing with barbed hooks and lousy spellers