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post #121 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2008, 05:15 PM
Headed for the Mountains
 
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Quote:
quote:What I do find interesting is that 99% of the people on the trail will say hello as you pass by or will stop and chat for a bit. Yet on a city street those same people will walk right by and not even look at you.
it is funny eh...maybe because most druggies and the such don't bother with hiking and the outdoors at all :P
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post #122 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2008, 05:53 PM
Headed for the Mountains
 
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Yup, both of ya hit it right on the nose.

Oh, I may have seen that first aid kit on the trail... the ambulance with shoulder straps?... cool rig!




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post #123 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2008, 06:40 PM
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O.M.G. now I have to put up with another one from New York yet !!![)]
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post #124 of (permalink) Old 09-06-2008, 07:10 AM
Headed for the Mountains
 
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Be nice, I'll be in your hood wit da posse. BTW it's Nu Yak.

I was reading your "Fleece thong wearin, Buntzen Lurkin, mystic poet mountain man and international spokesman of the friends of the white squirrel society".... interesting, are there many of ya in BC?

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post #125 of (permalink) Old 09-06-2008, 10:55 AM
Off the Beaten Path
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: n van, bc, Canada.
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The only bright side of littering I can think of is those crazy artifacts you run into.. Like old china cups from the logging days.. But that goes to show.. A lot of that stuff is just sticking around the forest. Biodegradable... to me? It's acceptable if it's far off a trail, away from campsites where it may attract animals to. I agree though, on these popular, main trails it can't be done.

As for fires, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them, unless it's during a fireban, or done in the alpine. Although I'd much prefer it's done in the alpine than during a fire ban. It really bugs me how people can't see the bigger picture there. Sacrifice a fire for yourself, for the rest of the ecosystem, the people's houses in the area, and the safety of people out there! It's just so careless.
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post #126 of (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 09:20 PM
 
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So I'm guessing a lot of people in this thread are the hikers giving me angry looks when I'm burning my wrappers\garbage in the camp fire.

As for cleaning out pots in pristine lakes. Come on! You can literally watch the little minnows gobble up the remaining bits of food! I'm all for carrying out things like cans and Styrofoam, but toilet paper? That's just going too far.
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post #127 of (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by zachdegner
I'm all for carrying out things like cans and Styrofoam, but toilet paper? That's just going too far.
I don't think that's going too far at all. You should leave a place as you found it. Leaving TP in the bush is not leaving it as you found it, and especially in well-used areas it's gross to go off behind a tree and find someone's strewn their TP everywhere. If everyone only litters a little, it adds up to a lot. You can carry some thick, opaque plastic bags with you and you'll never have to look at it again. Though in thick, mature forest I've been known to bury it deep in a hole underneath a rotting stump. But in the alpine? Please pack it out.
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post #128 of (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 11:59 PM
Off the Beaten Path
 
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Location: Whistler, BC, Canada.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by zachdegner


As for cleaning out pots in pristine lakes. Come on! You can literally watch the little minnows gobble up the remaining bits of food! I'm all for carrying out things like cans and Styrofoam, but toilet paper? That's just going too far.
Until there are 50 people cleaning their pots into the pristine lake during the course of a weekend and it ends up in my Nalgene.

There are ways of dealing with problems like this and your issue of carrying out toilet paper that are part of the "Leave No Trace" wilderness ethic. Digging a grey water pit and straining it so that you can clean your pot and setting light to your toilet paper before you bury it your cat hole takes 0 extra time or effort and therefore no excuse not to do it so that you leave the wilderness as pristine as you found it.

If you're squeamish about this kind of stuff for some reason, I suggest you stay out of the backcountry or learn to do it properly.

I invite you to come out with me for night or two and I will be happy to show you how to effortlessly clean up after yourself in the wilderness; afterwards I am sure you will be singing the same tune.
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post #129 of (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 08:28 AM
 
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It is true, if there were 15+ other people at the same campsite, I'd be more careful to not dirty up the water source. My argument is just that if you take into account the people around you and how long that food\biodegradable material is going to take to disappear then there isn't really a problem.

If you bury your TP\poo in a non-alpine area then realistically it is no different than when a bear squats down and takes care of his business. The only place that I've seen TP as very detrimental to the environment was in an extremely high traffic area in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, it was one of those excrement mine fields. It would make sense to carry it out on that trail.

Personally, I think that as long as you act reasonably and don't bother other hikers around you too much then it is all OK. Most people overall are quite reasonable when it comes to these sorts of things.

I've also got another piece of etiquette to add to this list:

(1) Don't look down on other hikers\paddlers just because you've been backpacking\paddling for a number of years. I see this ALL THE TIME at campsites and it drives me crazy. Promote the sport, don't turn otherwise happy people away from it. If you're going to let your ego get the best of you and put on snooty airs, then camp off by yourself.

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post #130 of (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 10:46 AM
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Zack - If your last post was directed at my comment previous, I'm sorry. It was not my intention to put out snooty airs.

Also, my invitation was not meant to be condescending.

When you mention pristine lakes, images of Gaibaldi, Joffre, and the like come to mind. When I go down to the lake and see spaghetti bits floating along the shore, I have to admit, it irks me quite a bit.

In reality it doesn't take 15+ users emptying their pots into the lake to make a mess of things. It only takes one lazy or ignorant person to detract from my experience. These places are only pristine because backcountry users for the most part stick to the "Leave No Trace" ethic.

When we are talking about the alpine, this stuff degrades at a much slower rate than what you might be used to living in the valleys. Both the lakes and the ground are iced up 8-10 months of the year and at their warmest the lakes are only slightly above freezing. Your minor contribution adds up I assure you, especially in high use alpine areas.

I often run across the attitude of "well my impact is so small and since the area is so pristine and "unused" it won't matter if I leave some trace that will eventually biodegrade anyway". The problem with this way of thinking is the reality: the previous users have minimized their impact as much as possible to give you the impression the impacts of people using the area is so small even if those impacts otherwise would be very visible without the proper care; if that makes sense?

If an area like Garibaldi Lake gets, oh say,10,000 visitors throughout the summer hiking season (I have no idea if this is anywhere near what it actually gets or not, and I do realize its used year round as well.) and all of them participate in minor impacts like dumping their food particles into the lake, and burying their toilet paper with their crap = no longer pristine. The shore and lake bottom would be covered in pasta and whatever else and the meadows above the lake would be littered with tp like a highschool prank gone awry.

"Leave No Trace" means just that - Its not just about cans and styrofoam. Simple stuff, yet some seem to make it so complicated.

If you are talking about true wilderness that might see one or two parties a year I tend to agree with you, but then its pretty hard to tell many people that heavily used places like the parks aren't true wilderness, but that they just look that way because people generally look after it.

However if it is so easy not to participate in leaving impacts such as these - why do it?
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post #131 of (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 09:29 AM
 
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Sorry, I actually meant the comment on snootiness as an aside to add to the list. It is directed at a handful of (mostly) thru-hikers I've run into on the AT and other trails. It just bothers me to see someone new-ish getting heckled or looked down upon (after all, this isn't a game of badminton!)

Alpine is definately a different story like you said. I've only ever visited Garibaldi once while living in Vancouver and didn't even camp by the lake. Unless it has been stocked with fish, any left over food is probably going to stick around for a while.

Beautiful hiking out in your neck of the woods btw.



---

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post #132 of (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dax

Can someone please explain why you should not have fires in the alpine? I can understand sub alpine, but why alpine?

Honest question, not trying to start a flame war.
2 reasons: 1) lack of fuel so people start going after green wood which has a hard enough time as it is. 2) scarring: the biologically poor alpine takes a very long time to recover
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post #133 of (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 08:34 AM
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Comments about TP

We do not need to litter our world anymore....I certainly don't see a bear or gopher leaving TP everywhere or any other man made materials.

Please do not leave TP in our wilderness....burn it on the spot or take it out with you...don't be squemish we all have the same issue so its nothing to be shy about.


I certainly don't want to see any garbage on the trail, in the bush or even on the side of the road.

One of the main reasons I am not interested in hiking the WCT is because its full of garbage the human inpact is quite shamefull.


lets be respectfull of nature and leave it as its intended.
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post #134 of (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 08:20 PM
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Not sure if this one has been asked.


How do people feel about
Q. Another group of hikers joining you on a day hike.
Q. Other hikers having lunch with you.

Today I ended up solo hiking (which I try not to do if I can help it).
Background
I went 9km up gold creek, there was 4-5 feet of snow and I did not see any other people. Then out of the blue, there was a small group of 3-4 people having lunch on a sand bar. I waved and briefly looked for a way down. I decided to keep on hiking and had lunch about a km later. After lunch I turned back. When I got back to their lunch spot, the tracks in the snow showed they had turned around as well.

Now if I had gone down and had lunch with them, and they had be cool with that, would they have also been cool about me walking back with them? If they did infact want to hike in there small group would our "Canadian Politeness" stop us from express that. I mean I could have cared less either way, I'm just wondering if someone would tell you what they truely thought.

Any light on this would be helful thanx in advance
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post #135 of (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by keadyn

Not sure if this one has been asked.


How do people feel about
Q. Another group of hikers joining you on a day hike.
Q. Other hikers having lunch with you.

Today I ended up solo hiking (which I try not to do if I can help it).
Background
I went 9km up gold creek, there was 4-5 feet of snow and I did not see any other people. Then out of the blue, there was a small group of 3-4 people having lunch on a sand bar. I waved and briefly looked for a way down. I decided to keep on hiking and had lunch about a km later. After lunch I turned back. When I got back to their lunch spot, the tracks in the snow showed they had turned around as well.

Now if I had gone down and had lunch with them, and they had be cool with that, would they have also been cool about me walking back with them? If they did infact want to hike in there small group would our "Canadian Politeness" stop us from express that. I mean I could have cared less either way, I'm just wondering if someone would tell you what they truely thought.

Any light on this would be helful thanx in advance
I think the answer is "it depends." Everyone is different. If you went and said hi and the conversation started to flow naturally, I think it would be fine to say, "Hey, mind if I join you for lunch/the hike back?" You could then gauge their reaction or if they seemed standoffish, you could then back away.

What I don't like is when I'm hiking with a small group and we sit down for a break, and some other group comes and plonks themselves down 10 feet away and talks among themselves. Why don't they find their own spot and give the existing group some space? (Of course, I'm talking about wide open spaces, not areas where there is limited space like on a small summit, or at obvious rest areas on popular trails).
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